Going to university in 2020

A reduction in fees would for the vast majority of students have no effect at all because most of them don't pay off their loans anyway. A reduction wouldn't reduce the amount graduates pay back. It would just reduce the money which universities receive from the government.

Students need immediate access to testing and nutritious food - not burger, pizza and pasta vans, which is what Man Met has provided. Those studying entirely online need to have access to decent digital equipment. It's surprising how many teenagers only access the internet via a phone, which isn't adequate for serious work.

Gavin Williamson just said in the HoC: "Extra maintenance support can be made available for hardship from Student Loans Co". There's just one problem - no such scheme exists - he just made it up! Most of us would call that lying. Either he is a liar or he genuinely knows little about student loans, despite being the Education Secretary.

DGS, now in sixth form, has announced that he has no intention of proceeding to University, but of seeking an apprenticeship. I applaud his sense of purpose and his maturity (he's just 16), but I wonder if the economic situation in two years' time will be such that even a bright young man will be able to find a suitable apprenticeship.

I think there are two separate issues here. The accommodation and tuition. The former is, IMO, a bad deal, and whereas there is a certain amount of responsibility on the part of students (and parents) for taking this up in the circumstances, I know that universities have encouraged them to go, and they could have foreseen problems. A refund or discount on rent while they are not in classes seems fair to me as a gesture of goodwill, so long as staff are not put at risk because of pressure to teach face to face in order to save money.

The tuition is a different matter. I don’t approve of fees, but given that they are here, I can’t see why people are pushing for refunds this year - unlike last year when several lectures were cancelled. There will be teaching, and assuming that staff have been given preparation time there is no reason to assume that it will be substandard. The fees are for teaching, marking and access to people with expertise, and that will still be available - as will the library.

Whether or not students are able to party is not the university’s responsibility- they will be subject to the same restrictions as all residents of their areas, and no more or less inconvenienced than others.

Possibly a difference in that the children who suffered online lessons during lockdown may have had family but were cut off from friends.

The students are certainly cut off from family, but from what I see on the local news they do have others the same age around them in their student halls of residence, at least the freshers. Not family and not old friends though I agree.

I'm just wondering how many posting on GN about how it is OK for Uni students to have all their tuition on line were insisting it was vital that children went back to school for their mental health? There isn't some sort of a transformation when someone reaches 18 you know. The 16 year old with anxiety who finds isolation difficult may well have the same problem at 18, and would normally depend upon the support of family and friends, people they will now be seperated from.

In the end, I had to get the police involved.

"If the adult child is refusing to communicate with their parents, then that is their right and doesn't automatically mean they are struggling although I do understand it must be very worrying for the parent. Once again, I can only speak from experience and say that a friend was very concerned about her child last year when they were injured in a particularly dangerous initiation ceremony and the university were very helpful."

I can speak from experience too and say that the university was incredibly unhelpful. Even when I spoke to them afterwards, they wouldn't admit they could have done more. They were just interested in covering their back. Sorry, I get quite tearful even thinking about what happened.

Something worse than Covid? Such as?

Students are a cross section of the population so some will cope and get on with it perfectly well and others will go to bits. The pictures reminded me of the care homes! perhaps the residents there should put up a few notices. I expect quite a few are having a lot of fun but my main worry wouldn't be covid but some other illness breaking out with them all locked in together.

Just found out that the overseas students at our local Uni came back two weeks before the term started and had to self-isolate for two weeks.

Apparently they just got in with it. No signs in the windows saying ‘let us out’ or ‘help’ or ‘refund our fees’ and so on (all of which have been seen on the local news).

growstuff

icanhandthemback Most students are 18 or over and legally are not the parents' responsibility and the universities will not communicate with parents.

If the child refuses to answer phone calls, texts, emails, etc and is 200 miles away, the parent is limited in what he/she can do. Contacting the university does no good either because they won't investigate, claiming that the student is an adult. Even travelling to the site does no good, if the university will not allow access to the building.

I'm afraid your post, thinking you know everything, has made me angry. You really don't seem to have much understanding of the experience of all too many students.

If the adult child is refusing to communicate with their parents, then that is their right and doesn't automatically mean they are struggling although I do understand it must be very worrying for the parent. Once again, I can only speak from experience and say that a friend was very concerned about her child last year when they were injured in a particularly dangerous initiation ceremony and the university were very helpful. Just as well as he had concussion and was taken to hospital. Whilst Unis won't take every parent's concerns seriously, after the suicides that have occurred in previous years, I understood that Universities were acting more cautiously about ignoring concerns.
Of course I don't know everything; however it would take me far too long to write down what I don't know and the first year of Uni would be long gone. The point I was trying to make, particularly as there was a particularly pointed comment about my son being able to cope, was that I wasn't just making my observations about his experience. I was making them based on what I had seen by a vast number of his friends who come from all walks of life and are at different Universities. I also have friends who lecture in Uni's. I certainly wasn't aiming at making anybody angry and of course there are some students who are finding this very hard...as there would be in a normal year. Those students do need more support and should be given in but not all students should thought of not being able to cope. Some of things people are shouting about, like contact time, is little different from what it usually is; we just don't hear about it on the news. I would stand beside anybody who was decrying that, I think it is a disgrace. The thought that every student is sitting in their room without any body else around is also wrong...the majority will have flatmates. Of course those in more traditional style accommodation should be allowed a bubble if they have isolated for the required time.
I don't see the point of worrying every gran who has a student grandchild that things are 'terrible'. They aren't ideal, for some they are terrible but for many, they have the resilience to get on with it and will still find a way of making it work. If you keep telling people they are weak, you will weaken them.

Apologies for using the whole quote, only meant to quote the fruit pickers bit and hadn’t intended to use name

growstuff

Even if they're not breaking any rules, it's difficult for students living in halls not to infect each other. They usually live in flats of 6-10 with a shared kitchen and bathrooms.

With 6-10 strangers turning up from different regions of the country, it's inevitable that if just one is infected, it will spread to the others. Students weren't told before they arrived that they would be confined to their flats. Those paying for full board will be expected to eat in a large dining hall. Most were also told that they would have at least some face-to-face tuition which would involve leaving the building and travelling.

The living conditions aren't that different from that of fruit pickers.

They should all have been tested on arrival and testing should have been available on a regular basis for anybody suspecting they might be infected. They can't be kept in self-isolation for the duration of the course.

“The living conditions aren’t that different from fruit pickers.“
That’s a bit snobbish. Students are not more special than fruit pickers or anyone else. It’s a pandemic, everyone is suffering in some way, how each one deals with it will determine each one’s future. Come on students, make the best of a bad situation, step up and prove your mettle. Let’s all stop creating victims.

I agree with Toadinthehole, you can go to university at any age. Much better to go when you're older, know what degree you need and can see the point in working for it.

biba70 I'm not wishing to downplay the awful time your student friend is having but, it is very unlikely that a foreign student would have been accepted by a UK university with poor English language skills. All non-native English language speakers are required to have passed either an academic level IELTS or TOEFL exam before being accepted. The standards are high (I am an IELTS examiner) and few UK universities will accept even the lowest pass mark.
I do hope the university International Office will offer support to your friend. I imagine the whole experience must be quite distressing for him.

I hadn't noticed people speaking out much for those in cramped living conditions or high rise flats either.

That's kind of my point, growstuff

Alegrias

There are lots of young people stuck in tiny accommodation, in high rise flats, without gardens, some of them with children of their own. Many of them will not have a University welfare system to support them, they have to get on with it.
There are clearly students out there who are having a bad time, and to any relatives of those people on here, please don't think that I'm saying that there are no problems at all.

But while not minimising the situation many students are finding themselves in, they are not unique and I'm finding this constant stream of breast beating on their behalf a bit much.

Life's not great for any of us just now. Saying that their education is ruined is a bit premature. Its a few weeks in their entire lives!

I most certainly do not think students are in a unique situation. I hadn't noticed people speaking out much for those in cramped living conditions or high rise flats either.

Maybe the students who are whinging about being held against their will would like to change places with my friend. Her husband was diagnosed with bladder cancer 4 years ago and had five operations and five follow up treatments. In May this year he became ill again and it took my friend 4 weeks to get a doctor to come out to him and he was too weak to go to the surgery. Eventually a doctor did visit and he was taken straight into hospital, by this time the cancer had spread to various organs and only palliative care was possible. She was not allowed to go with him and only allowed an hour on his last day. Their grown up children were not allowed to go at all.
I think two weeks quarantine so that you can get on with your studies pales into significance compared to that.

Happysexagenarian

Paddyanne I totally agree with you. These students are supposed to be young ADULTS. It's time they started behaving like adults and taking responsibility for themselves and their actions, and the consequences. To see them on TV complaining about the restrictions and isolation and lack of social life makes me mad. "Grow up, you're in the adult world now!! If you can't hack it you should have stayed at home with your mummy."

Now I'll take cover behind the sofa.

I would have thought that you are adult enough to realise that TV interviews with individuals are never representative of a whole group of people.

Grandma70s

A course that consists mostly of reading and discussion can’t be done at home unless the student happens to live near a big academic library, and I suspect most don’t.

Most books and periodicals, etc are available online.

icanhandthemback Most students are 18 or over and legally are not the parents' responsibility and the universities will not communicate with parents.

If the child refuses to answer phone calls, texts, emails, etc and is 200 miles away, the parent is limited in what he/she can do. Contacting the university does no good either because they won't investigate, claiming that the student is an adult. Even travelling to the site does no good, if the university will not allow access to the building.

I'm afraid your post, thinking you know everything, has made me angry. You really don't seem to have much understanding of the experience of all too many students.

Barmeyoldbat Your attitude towards a particular group of human beings, about whom you seem to understand little, does you no credit.

vegansrock

Maybe those students whose classes are all online should not have been encouraged to go to the University but to have stayed at home. Those who actually need practical classes- chemists, engineering, medicine and so on should have attended and they could have social distanced more easily without the full number of students. The universities want to fill up the halls of residences to get the income.

SNAP

Barmeyoldbat

It would have been a lot better if people had used their common sense and realised that this virus is going to be around all over the winter and probably beyond.. If they had thought about it they could have taken a gap year and just not gone to uni, they could have gone to a uni nearer to home and lived at home. This is probably just one year out of their lives, they will still have time to live away and party, but no they just carry on regardless. I don't really have any sympathy for the students, they had choices and they are young enough to have plenty of time in the future. Its the usual I must have regardless. Paddyanne you are right.

It would have been better if universities hadn't promised a safe environment, which they couldn't deliver.

They needed the students in accommodation to pay the rents.

What would the young people have done in their gap year anyway? Casual labour has dried up and they would not be eligible for Universal Credit?

Maybe those students whose classes are all online should not have been encouraged to go to the University but to have stayed at home. Those who actually need practical classes- chemists, engineering, medicine and so on should have attended and they could have social distanced more easily without the full number of students. The universities want to fill up the halls of residences to get the income.