Going to university in 2020

Try not to get ‘b***y angry’ growstuff. There’s nothing you can do to change the situation. Besides it’s not as black and white as you are making out.

There are no winners in this. Losers are the students, the Unis and the landlords.

What do those advocating reduced fees think the savings to Universities have been by moving online?

I completely accept that one of the best things about going to University is 'the experience', but the shape of that experience is largely up to the student. It is not up to the University to provide parties, facilitate the making of friends and so on. Universities are there to provide an education, which they are continuing to do, whether on or offline, and it is for that that the fees are paid. The Universities are not reneging on their promises to educate the students, whether that education happens in the way those students would have preferred or not.

Where I do think they have been (at best) disingenuous is to suggest that students would be safe, better off or well advised to choose a return to campus over staying at home. I can understand that the motive for this will have been that a significant number of young students would choose an institution that offered 'the experience', and they need the money, given the expected reduction in International student numbers because of the virus, and the reduction in research opportunities that Brexit will bring. Nevertheless, I think it was cynical to suggest that 18 year olds should rent expensive rooms when it could have been predicted that they would be subject to the sort of restrictions that would negatively impact on their experience at University.

I feel sorry for this year group, who have been disproportionately impacted by the virus, but (whilst I am firmly in support of fees being abolished) I'm afraid I don't see an argument for their being reduced because of online provision.

I too can understand that students like parties and mingling in big groups, but can't they put the lid on it for just one year? Those young people who can't get married this year have equal sympathy from me, not just in terms of costs, but in terms of one of life's big decisions. However, weddings are a soft target, universities provoke more resistance.

Chewbacca

I agree that the students return to uni has been appallingly managed growstuff, a blind man on a galloping horse could have foreseen that there would inevitably be outbreaks of the virus when so many people socialised en mass. But those students were aware of the epidemic when they left home to go into halls of residence, they knew that they would exacerbate the risks if they went into crowded bars and clubs. But they did it anyway and carried on as if it was any other normal freshers week. They can hardly claim thatbthey were unaware!
As for "older people ignoring the rules", yes, some have. But the vast majority have not. I can't speak for the area that you live in but your experience is definitely not what I've seen in my area.

Some students have partied - not all, but all are having to pay for it and the lack of empathy from some who really don't seem to understand what 18 year olds have experienced this year.

I really object to the scapegoating yet again of a whole group of people.

They were lured by the universities by promises of a covid-safe environment and a full teaching timetable. I've seen the emails my son received. He hasn't returned yet, so can't be held responsible for any parties. He will go back because his grandmother has paid for a self-contained flat and he's not interested in parties anyway, but I can understand why the younger ones are.

There's going to be another anti-lockdown "Freedom Rally" in Trafalgar Square today. Maybe David Icke and the assorted idiots who attend could pay the compensation, if they're not wearing masks or observing social distancing rules (which they won't, if it was anything like last weekend). It's people like that who are responsible for the virus being endemic in the community.

I agree that the students return to uni has been appallingly managed growstuff, a blind man on a galloping horse could have foreseen that there would inevitably be outbreaks of the virus when so many people socialised en mass. But those students were aware of the epidemic when they left home to go into halls of residence, they knew that they would exacerbate the risks if they went into crowded bars and clubs. But they did it anyway and carried on as if it was any other normal freshers week. They can hardly claim thatbthey were unaware!
As for "older people ignoring the rules", yes, some have. But the vast majority have not. I can't speak for the area that you live in but your experience is definitely not what I've seen in my area.

If they can't get tested without leaving the building they are in a Catch22 situation . Surely the University owes them a duty of care. The lack of testing six months after lockdown is an abject failure. Since the government is so inept, can the universities not provide tests?

Up to 1,700 students at Manchester Metropolitan have been forced to self-isolate for 14 days. They can't get tested because they're not allowed to leave the building. If they do, they've been told they won't be allowed back.

There are 90,000 students in Manchester and Salford and this was all so inevitable, but the powers that be chose to hope it would all be OK.

I'm actually really bl**dy angry.

Maybe the government should cancel repayments for those students who haven't been able to attend face-to-face and maybe will not use the accommodation they've paid for.

Watched a news item last night that interviewed students and university/college principals.

It seems there is no easy answer to your question varian.

If the fees and lodging costs are not paid then income from a wide range of people has been lost. I include here the money spent by students in the locality. If these fees etc are paid and the students then have to spend all their time in lockdown (as in growing number of large towns and cities around UK now), they will not get that full campus experience. Some lodgings had in excess of 6 in them!

The news I watched at one university said that all students are now being tested to enable those negative to return home.

Chewbacca

^Just like older people, who've been finding every loophole going and ignoring the rules.^

I've not seen any evidence of 100s of older people crowding into clubs and bars, hugging each other and generally ignoring any social distancing. Did I miss that?

Yes, you obviously did! I've only left the house a handful of times since March, but I saw it when I drove through a neighbouring village a couple of weeks ago. I've also read on GN about the people who have ignored the rules.

Ellianne

^Over half of the 58 cases of coronavirus in Devon in the past seven days can be traced to the University of Exeter, it has confirmed.^
We have been lucky with a very low number of cases so far in Devon, but this spells a change and is creating upset.

It's not as though that couldn't have been foreseen.

Ironically, the current "darlings" of some in government, Sunetra Gupta and Carl Heneghan have advocated letting the younger generation infect each other in the misguided attempt to achieve herd immunity.

Just like older people, who've been finding every loophole going and ignoring the rules.

I've not seen any evidence of 100s of older people crowding into clubs and bars, hugging each other and generally ignoring any social distancing. Did I miss that?

Nonnie

growstuff

So it's fair for them to pay £9250 plus the same again for rent for an experience they're not getting?

I don't think it's the students' responsibility to make up for the shortfall in landlords' income.

Is it fair on the landlord to subsidise a tenant who broke their agreement?

The universities have broken the agreement. They shouldn't have made promises they're not keeping. Maybe they should be responsible for compensation.

I guess the lectures are being recorded, so that students don't have to cram into lecture theatres.

NotSpaghetti My son was in his first year, so maybe they thought the first years don't matter. As you know, first year exams don't count towards the degree. One module was cancelled completely. He did do an exam remotely and achieved 87%, but that was down to his own hard work - working from home.

Chewbacca

I watched a news video yesterday of some students out celebrating their freshers week; drinking in bars, partying and generally enjoying themselves before the 22.00 curfew began. Obviously no social distancing. A few of them were then bemoaning the fact they felt that they were being scapegoated by older people and they felt that they had already sacrificed enough and shouldn't be expected to sacrifice any more. I was a bit when I heard that some students at Manchester Uni, on being told that they must self isolate for 14 days, were complaining that they were "being held against their will".

Just like older people, who've been finding every loophole going and ignoring the rules.

growstuff, my husband, also Russell group, has taught all the way through lockdown via zoom (sorry, no, the other one...?? - might be called Teams?).

He taught all through Easter including weekends with only the statutory days off. He said that without that support, many students, especially his 3rd years, would be given the grades they had been working at, but would not have the opportunity of the "exit boost" that some push themselves to achieve. He felt it it was important to give them all the same opportunityto shine as students have in more normal times. Maybe he and his colleagues are the exception rather than the rule, but the sheer exhaustion of teaching full time online (including practical things) was instrumental in him just now retiring ahead of time.

He is grateful to be out.

His university has told staff they will be expected to teach or be available to students till 9pm. They will also have to teach/be available on a Saturday. The students are supposed to have one in every three hours "face to face" and the rest online. Every lecture will apparently be recorded but offered to students to watch in real time. I don't know why they are recording them.
I think every university will be finding it's own way through.
I'm sure your son will have an on-line schedule soon.
I hope it works out ok for him in the end. Good luck.

growstuff

So it's fair for them to pay £9250 plus the same again for rent for an experience they're not getting?

I don't think it's the students' responsibility to make up for the shortfall in landlords' income.

Is it fair on the landlord to subsidise a tenant who broke their agreement?

Furret

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head Nonnie about looking at it from all perspectives. Everyone is suffering the students, the universities, the landlords.

Ditto out there in industry, retail, entertainment, sport, public private sectors, etc..Some more than others.

Like you I don’t have the answers, but, given the lack of leadership I hope that gradually compromises and some sort of solution will eventually emerge.

So ... if you had paid £18,000 for a holiday and turned up at the airport to be told that the holiday had been cancelled, but you could stay in an airport broom cupboard with a video of your holiday destination, you wouldn't complain?

I take it that those of you "blaming" students don't have 18 year old children or grandchildren leaving home for the first time to go to university.

It's not up to students to subsidise landlords' pensions.

That age group aren't renowned for their common sense.
I thought that school were the weakest link in all of this, but it seems that Universities are even worse.
We need to get a grip and fast.

I watched a news video yesterday of some students out celebrating their freshers week; drinking in bars, partying and generally enjoying themselves before the 22.00 curfew began. Obviously no social distancing. A few of them were then bemoaning the fact they felt that they were being scapegoated by older people and they felt that they had already sacrificed enough and shouldn't be expected to sacrifice any more. I was a bit when I heard that some students at Manchester Uni, on being told that they must self isolate for 14 days, were complaining that they were "being held against their will".

Risky behaviour in adolescents and young adults is a biological imperative.
As is socialising and forming relationships.
They are just doing what they are genetically programmed to do.
It is very, very difficult.
They are safer at home. Safer for everyone.

paddyanne I’m not going to pillory you for posting that, as there is certainly some truth in what you wrote.

But while many, more sensible students, will curtail their activities there are certainly some who lack common sense and think to hang with the consequences.

I'm afraid I'm about to be very disliked....aren't these young people meant to be the intelligent ones of their generation? Should they have stuck to the advice they were given when they arrived.No parties,no big groups stick within your own household.if it was one of mine who had blatantly thought they weren't obligated to follow advice and then moaned about being in isolation I'd be having a long talk with them about responsibility and common sense .These young people appear to be lacking in both.If I thought I was sending mine to uni at a huge expense just so they can party ,I'd be appalled.Many of us were married with families at that age ,maybe they've been babied too long .

Over half of the 58 cases of coronavirus in Devon in the past seven days can be traced to the University of Exeter, it has confirmed.
We have been lucky with a very low number of cases so far in Devon, but this spells a change and is creating upset.