McCluskey really wants to ensure Labour will never be electable !

I don’t see this as a lack of understanding, it’s a disagreement about the recent history and future of the LP.

The Labour Party's capacity for self destruction leaves me in awe.

Actually, I have said several times that I do understand - but that the reality is, is it not going to happen. Which leaves us with only one alternative, if KS is not going to be fully supported by his Party.

FPTP has to go- so that we have more parties which are more representatives of the many factions, right, left and centre- but again this is not going to happen unless we have a strong centre left party.

Thanks Castafiore and Grany it is good to know GN has some people who really understand.

Well Said Castafiore spot on

I have to agree with trisher many people feel the same.

Lots of instances. If friends had a drink every time Keir Starmer said I back the government they'd be under the table.

The unions cutting funding.

And his demeanour is one of holding back stilted not a passionate conviction that says I want change more of a I don't want to rock the boat. Big Change is Needed.

Rich donors funding him, lots membership have left the party thinking he is not someone they want to back.

Let's see if he is playing the long game. I have my doubts.

Whilst we were out canvassing in the dark and rain Corbyn was working against Kinnock and even running a campaign from his own home .

Well said Castafiore

I completely agree with Trisher. The policies on which the 2017 election was fought were vote-winners - they were straightforward social democracy. They were, briefly: mail, rail, energy and water nationalisation; a 50% top rate tax on incomes over £123,000 a year and a 45% rate on incomes over £80.000; and the scrapping of anti-union laws. Other policies included action to reduce carbon emissions, the abolition of private schools, free tuition in HE, an end to zero-hours contracts, and a 20:1 pay ratio for all employees in the public sector. They were fully costed. (And would have gone a considerable way towards reducing the hidden costs of Tory austerity in terms of the effects of poverty: increased crime, poor health etc.) Labour came within 2,500 votes of winning. It was the biggest increase in Labour vote share since 1945. We now know (from the leaked Labour Party document) that the Blairite staffers were working against a Labour victory, diverting resources away from marginal constituencies to safe Labour seats held by right-wingers. After the shock of this near victory the media and the Blairites (i.e. most of the Parliamentary Labour Party, many of whom owed their increased majorities to Corbyn's policies) stepped up their opposition. Corbyn was smeared and ridiculed. The 2019 election was almost certainly unwinnable by a Party perceived as opposing Brexit, owing to the electoral arithmetic - the seats we needed to win, and those we needed not to lose, were Leave seats. The 2017 manifesto (like that of the Lib Dems in 2017) had promised to respect the result of the referendum and try and negotiate a deal including membership of a customs union. We lost because of the huge anger among Leavers (many in post-industrial constituencies blighted by unemployment and zero-hours jobs, abandoned since the 1980s, including by the Blair govt, which preferred to focus on deregulating the city and building up London as a financial centre), not because of the policies, which were popular. And Corbyn was demonised. What we lost was democracy. McCluskey speaks for thousands of us, hundreds of thousands. It makes no sense to say that the Left doesn't want to win. While we were out canvassing in the dark and the rain, the Blairites recently promoted by Starmer were doing the rounds of the studios talking Labour down and smearing Corbyn. Now they call for 'unity' and claim we're 'extremists'. I'm not an extremist, I'm a grandmother and I've been a teacher all my life. I want a future for my grandchildren in a country that hasn't sold their birthright to corporate interests.

trisher’s criticism of the Blair Government shows what’s
ahead for Starmer and the Labour Party

The alternative is a proper LP which stops trying to beat the Tories at some sort of economy game and adopts policies which will change things. Housing fuel and food being the major areas of change. Affordable housing would make such a difference.

Agreed, but what is the alternative?

100%- that being unelectable will not change anything for the better either. Garanteed.

One of the things which might have left a legacy is changing the rules about council housing and encouraging them to build. It was a lost opportunity.

Of course Sure Start made a huge difference whilst it was operational, but it is no more. Of course there were huge changes whilst the LP was in power. Unfortunately none of those changes has changed things for the better in the long run.
One of Blair's promises was that he would wipe out child poverty by 2020. It is due to reach 5 million this year. www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/our-work/ending-child-poverty

Galaxy,one of the adults who benefited from the Blair government, including Sure Start centres is Angela Raynor. For those who don't know, Angela's mother had m.h. problems, so A became a child carer. She got pregnant and left school at 15. She credits Union support and Sure Start with helping her get her life in a better place. She is now deputy leader of the LP.
Success!

I cant even begin to describe the changes that sure start made to some families, and sure start wasnt perfect either but it was transformative. This isnt a game. The adults who benefited from sure start are currently part of our society, if those centres were still there they would be supporting those adults with their children. Maybe beginning to undo decades of issues.

trisher

So what would you all regard as the legacy of right wing Labour? What long term changes did it make? One thing the real Tories are excellent at doing is introducing changes which it is difficult, if not impossible to change. privatisation of the railways legislation on the Unions, sale of council houses, academy schools, legal aid restrictions, now changes to our democracy. and loads more. They realise tinkering is easily undone. Tory-lite didn't even change the union or council house rules.

I started listing the long term positive legacy of the Labour government, together with what it achieved whilst in office.

The list got so ridiculously long that I gave up.

So if you really don’t know then I suggest you are not a true Labour supporter.

trisher, your question about the legacy of 'right wing Labour' is couched so negatively that its clear, absolutely anything anyone says that doesn't criticise those governments will be dismissed.
This thread questions whether McClusky really wants to ensure Labour will never be electable. My view on this is to question how anyone who is so close to various Labour people, has worked int he unions for so long could want to keep Labour out of power. Then I return to endless discussions with union members (I was active in our union) whose view was solid. The Labour Party had to view the world as they did, or there was no point in a Labour government. In truth, most of them were in the SWP or IMG so things haven't changed much since the late 70's and 80s have they.
I have occasionally wondered if McClusky and his ilk are in the pay of a foreign power, or the tory party, so determined are they to rubbish anyone in the LP who doesn't toe their very narrow line.

How anyone on the left can dismiss the progress in poverty stricken areas, in education, health, social work, criminal justice etc etc after the 1997 election, I just don't know. SureStart Family centres for one . It isn't Blair's fault that almost all these good centres have been closed. Its 10 years of austerity.

OK, we can accept that.

I can tell you, however, 100%- that being unelectable will not change anything for the better either. Garanteed.

So what would you all regard as the legacy of right wing Labour? What long term changes did it make? One thing the real Tories are excellent at doing is introducing changes which it is difficult, if not impossible to change. privatisation of the railways legislation on the Unions, sale of council houses, academy schools, legal aid restrictions, now changes to our democracy. and loads more. They realise tinkering is easily undone. Tory-lite didn't even change the union or council house rules.

This would have been utterly unthinkable during Brown’s tenure

Pete Timmins ??

PPE Medpro was incorporated in May this year with a share capital of £100 . It has just won, without tender, a £110,000,000 contract to supply PPE to the NHS

The govt is being run by a bunch of corrupt #Tories who award contracts to pals, paying them millions in tax payers money

varian

But it was his unguarded off screen remark about the "bigoted woman" that finished him

What halcyon days they were looking back.

These days a remark like that would pass unnoticed, because we have lies, incompetence and downright criminal activity on the part of our politicians.

and she was ... anyhow. So what a waste of a good man.

Unfortunately he was being filmed when he thought he was off screen.

But it was his unguarded off screen remark about the "bigoted woman" that finished him