Tories plan benefit cuts for pensioners

We haven’t needed to downsize yet, and we do spend a lot of time in separate rooms. I still work, off and on, and I take various courses, so I need peace and quiet when I’m busy. My husband plays musical instruments and has music on between times, so we do need our own space.

Also, I am a lot colder than he is, and like the fire on a lot earlier than he would. The existing arrangement means that we tend to be in rooms with different temperatures during the day, and sit together in the evening.

Neither of us is old enough to qualify for the allowance (or state pension), but I’d say we definitely use more fuel between two than either of us would as singles. There are two lots of baths, more washing (although not twice as many loads) and so on, too.

I don’t know why there has to be a separate allowance anyway, apart from the fact that it causes conversations like this and the chance for calls to withdraw it, as there are for anything given to older people. Why not include it in a decent pension and stop begrudging pensioners the money they have worked for all their lives?

Before anyone says that we can’t afford to pay people a decent pension - we are the sixth richest country in the world! We can afford it. It’s a question of priorities and political will.

Elegran
Do the pensioners spend all their time in different rooms, or sit together most of the time in the same one (the one with the TV in it)
A couple I know downsized to a small bungalow and she warned us against it - "You can't get away from each other!"
Although they were a close couple, I know what she meant.

I suppose there have to be some benefits to marrying an older man.

I'm just off to check whether or not my old man got the extra £50 last winter.

Liam Fox is still an MP, but seems to be looking for a way out.

Is Alex Wild still in his job with the Taxpayers' Alliance? He sounded, in that speech, to be very callous.
Who funds the Taxpayers' Alliance?

It was click bait! Paddyanne fell hook line and sinker for the bait and clicked on old news without checking the facts.

Aaahh! well that explains it. I imagine it's an easy trap to fall into. Especially if you dont have the time to investigate!

Thank you Kamiso for reading my post and taking the time to reply

Callistemon ... Thanks for coming back to me on this.
I did read your post 08/10 22.19 but expected some others to agree and confirm, or not as the case may be!
When no one posted, I wanted to re confirm I understood.
I can be a bit slow on the uptake sometimes

To be honest I should have just relied on your post as you are very rarely incorrect.

Gosh, doesnt it take a lot of effort to explain in writing what takes a few seconds in RL?

My late mother in law lived with her sister, and they each received £200, because they were apparently viewed as having separate households.

Ngaio1

What is the triple lock?

The triple lock guarantees pensioners a state pension uplift every April of whichever is the highest of inflation, average earnings growth or 2.5 per cent. ... With earnings and inflation both down, the uplift is likely to be 2.5 per cent.

It is assumed that two people cohabiting use the same living room. Do the pensioners spend all their time in different rooms, or sit together imost of the time in the same one (the one with the TV in it)? If they are in the same room, it has one heater. Does it need more heaters because two people are sitting in it? Does it need fewer ?

How much much does it cost to find out? More than giving a blanket allowance, and people would complain about that as well.

Maggie it just shows how daft the allowance is as it stands. I’m older than my DH but when I first got the money, we were both still working and I was certainly not at home all day needing the heating on. That’s why it should be mean tested - I’d increase it as well

Ah well, looks like I’m outvoted. I suppose there have to be some benefits to marrying an older man.

Some people do give it to charity.

But he'd only be half as warm while you were out working.
He's treated as a single person.

They do. That’s what I think is unnecessary. A household with people in it of working age is not to my mind a pensioner household. I would see it as fairer if my DH had had £100 over the years.

It’s actually a good example of a wife being given allowances based on her husband’s circumstances, rather than on her own contributions. Which you say is grossly unfair.

I see it as per household.
You benefited but it was not your allowance, it was your DH's,
to help keep the house warm for him.
When you receive it the house won't need to be kept twice as warm.

It's not based on contributions like a pension because it's an additional benefit

I may have misunderstood the table you linked to (I’m tired!) but I read it like Callistemon - that the person on a pension gets paid the allowance regardless of the age/earning power of their spouse.

So you think it’s okay that a pensioner who happens to have a younger spouse gets £200 and a pensioner with a spouse the same age gets £100?

My DH is older than me, so we’ve benefitted from this for years. 10 years in fact. And I’m not of state pension age yet. It’s actually a good example of a wife being given allowances based on her husband’s circumstances, rather than on her own contributions. Which you say is grossly unfair.

Yes, which I think is reasonable if they have paid into the system. I didn’t mean to come across as snippy - it just seems fair to me, and would be unfair if it didn’t work like that.

I suppose it's because it is £200 per household where a pensioner is living, irrespective of who else lives there and their income.

I’m not disagreeing with what happens - I’m disagreeing with your thinking it odd, is all. Disagreeing isn’t lecturing. I thought this was a discussion.

But if that pensioner has paid into the system all her/his life, why should the fact that their spouse is younger make a difference to their allowance?

Hang on, Doodlebug. It has made a difference, hasn’t it?

A pensioner living with another pensioner - they get £100 each. A pensioner living with someone of working age - the one pensioner gets £200.

So the fact that their spouse is younger has in effect doubled his or her entitlement.

I’m not sure why you think I need a lecture on equality. I’m simply pointing out what I see as an anomaly.

But if that pensioner has paid into the system all her/his life, why should the fact that their spouse is younger make a difference to their allowance?

It's not 1950, when women expected their husbands to support them, so needed to claim on their pensions in older age.

These days women can work and contribute in their own right, and if they do so, IMO, it is grossly unfair to use their husband's income as a basis for their allowances (and ditto men's allowances being dependent on women's income). This is another reason why I dislike means testing so much. People are taxed as individuals but benefits are worked out on the basis of household income.

I think I’m starting to confuse myself, Callistemon, so I’ll just post a link.

www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/what-youll-get

One thing I do think is odd is that a pensioner living with somebody under pension age gets £200.

The WFA is £200 for a single pensioner household as well as for a two person household. £300 for people over 80.

I'm left wondering if I didn't explain it properly

£200 per household which is £200 for a single person.
£100 each for a 2 person household = £200.
£300 for people over 80 per household
Therefore a couple, one 80+ and one under 80 would get £250 - is that correct?

To make it more fair, why not just £100 per every pensioner household?

They must have calculated average fuel costs during the coldest months to arrive at that £200 allowing for younger people to be more active than over 80s.

Did anyone miss £50 when it used to be £250 ? I doubt it.

EllanVannin, have you really never met anyone living in poverty? I’m surprised that anyone would think £50 is just pocket change to everybody.

The WFA is £200 for a single pensioner household as well as for a two person household. £300 for people over 80.

I don't think we will ever agree on that, as I don't think it should be about how people 'can manage'.

After a lifetime of paying tax/NI it should be about giving people a decent standard of living. If you pay in, you should get back, and if that means increasing taxes, so be it.