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Something truly incidious and destructive going on

(21 Posts)
biba70 Sun 11-Oct-20 10:07:09

So now the Governement has found some obscure rule to stop MPs, our elected representatives, from discussing yet another major issue. They were supposed to discuss the new rules on cheap and poor quality/dangerous imports from the USA and other countries - which will totally destroy our own agriculture and all who work in that sector. Also take away our right to choose, as they will do away with provenance and other labelling. Johnson and his Government have now found an obscure rule that will prevent MPs from debating this .

So in order for us to 'get back control' - to take back to our own Sovereign Parliamentary Democracy away from Brussels - we now see it being destroyed in front of our very eyes-with nothing we can do but watch.

I so hope there will be a revolt in the House and the Lords developing from this, and that Keir Starmer will truly rise to the occasion. As mark my word- this is the most worrying aspect of the whole debacle with Brexit- and it will destroy our beloved UK as we know it. Shameful and seriously worrying.

biba70 Sun 11-Oct-20 10:11:32

Elegran Sun 11-Oct-20 10:23:03

This is the biggest worry - that systematically every bit of the gradually developed infrastructure of the country is being undermined for the sake of short-term gains for a small section of the population who are selling our birthright for a mess of pottage.

varian Thu 15-Oct-20 12:07:34

The Conservative promise to shrink the state was always a con. But it has seldom been as big a lie as it is today. Johnson grabs powers back from parliament with both fists, invoking Henry VIII clauses to prevent MPs from voting on crucial legislation, stitching up trade deals without parliamentary scrutiny, shutting down remote participation, so that MPs who are shielding at home can neither speak nor vote, and shutting down parliament altogether, when it suits him.

He seeks to seize powers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland: the internal market bill appears to enable Westminster to take back control of devolved policies. He imposes the will of central government on local authorities, refusing to listen to mayors and councils while dropping new coronavirus measures on their cities. He claws back powers from the people, curtailing our ability to shape planning decisions; shutting down legal challenges to government policy; using the Coronavirus Act and the covert human intelligence sources bill to grant the police inordinate power over our lives.

His promises to restore sovereignty are lies. While using the language of liberation, he denies power to both people and parliament. He promised to curtail the state, but under his government, the state is bursting back into our lives, breaking down our doors, expanding its powers while reducing ours.

Instead, he gives power away to a thing he calls “the market”, which is a euphemism for the power of private money. This power is concentrated in a small number of hands. When Johnson talks of standing back and letting the private sector get on with it, he means that democratic power is being surrendered to oligarchs.

The failure of test and trace shows the folly of handing huge contracts to private giants

Under the Conservatives, the state shrinks only in one direction: to make room for money and privilege. It grants lucrative private contracts to favoured companies without advertisement or competitive tendering. It gifts crucial arms of the NHS to failed consultants and service companies. It replaces competent, professional civil servants with incompetent corporate executives.

Elegran Thu 15-Oct-20 13:47:54

De Gaulle - "L'état, c'est moi"

Grany Thu 15-Oct-20 14:04:40


Imagine if the £12bn given to private contractors had instead gone to the NHS, primary care, non-profit and uni labs and local public health teams. Just imagine. And that’s only the £s that we know about.


There is no excuse for more austerity.

Interest rates are low and even the IMF agrees that cuts won't be necessary.

The only option is to borrow, invest, and save Iives and jobs. It would cost us more not to.

EllanVannin Thu 15-Oct-20 14:12:31

I personally wouldn't blame anyone ( with money ) to leave this country behind right now as that's what I think will happen.
I certainly would if I had the wherewithal. By the time were finished and with one thing and another, what is there to offer ?

hallgreenmiss Thu 15-Oct-20 14:18:43

‘In the Commons on Thursday, Ms Truss criticised a “blanket ban” on food products not complying with British farming regulations, telling MPs: “I want to make sure our farmers are able to continue with their high standards, but I don't want to stop developing countries exporting their goods to us.”’

Since when has the USA been a developing country?

westendgirl Thu 15-Oct-20 14:25:53

I was angry to read that some executives from Boston Consulting Group helping to run test and trace were being paid daily rates of about £7,000 and that more than 1,000 consultants from Deloitte were working on the the programme at day rates of as much as £2,360.
We do have very good people with experience working for local councils, people who know their area as well.
Why is this happening ? Do not think it is disgraceful ?

westendgirl Thu 15-Oct-20 14:27:15

Do you not think it is disgraceful ?(sorry )
By the way my information is from the Times.

varian Thu 15-Oct-20 15:37:16

There was never any need for a privitised, high cost, low quality over-centralised test, track and trace system.

Requests for tests could have been routed through GP surgeries as virtually everyone in this country is registered with a GP.

Suitably trained testers (including many drawn from furloughed or unemployed staff or students) could have administered tests from local centres, mobile units or even by home visits (as happens in other countries).

There should have been routine testing in NHS and care and educational facilities, prisons, and workplaces. and compulsory testing at all ports and airports.

All over the country there are hospital labs, university labs, research institute labs and other facilities which could have processed the test samples. These should have been funded and equipped to handle the high volume of testing which is essential.

The local Directors of Public Health are experts in tracking and tracing and their staff have the detailed local knowledge and experience to do this efficiently.

The statisticians and epidemiologists who collate and analyse the test results can work from anywhere as long as they can receive reliable timely data.

I would have been happy to give the government this advice at the beginning of March, as would many others who did not see a national emergency first and foremost as a way of enriching themselves and their cronies.

£7,000 a day is obscene in a country where some have to get by on less than £7,000 a year.

sparklingsilver28 Thu 15-Oct-20 15:54:05

The trouble is how much of any of it can one believe - rhetorical question. Whichever way you look all sources compromised!

growstuff Thu 15-Oct-20 16:57:13


The trouble is how much of any of it can one believe - rhetorical question. Whichever way you look all sources compromised!

That's why one learns to be critical and discerning. Learn how to read between the lines.

varian Thu 15-Oct-20 17:19:48

People across the country have endured terrible hardships over the past six months. They’ve lost loved ones, lost livelihoods and been cut off from friends and family. We have made huge sacrifices and played by the Government’s rules - we deserve to have confidence that these rules will work.

Instead, our efforts are being squandered by the incompetence of Boris Johnson. His Test and Trace system is not fit for purpose, and scientific advice is being ignored. It is now clear the Government ignored calls from experts for a ‘circuit break' short national lockdown. We urge them to reconsider. No one wants to see businesses close again but if this gives time to fix the Test, Trace and Isolate system, it could be a vital step to getting the virus back under control and keeping it under control.

Alongside a circuit break, the Liberal Democrats demand Government take the following steps in order to get a grip on this crisis:

1. Fix Test, Trace and Isolate
This must be the Government’s top priority. Every possible resource should be thrown at creating a robust, locally-led Test and Trace system which ensures everyone with symptoms can get a test and receive their results within 24-hours. Tracing should be led by local authorities and people should be given support and incentives to isolate, not the threat of a £10,000 fine. Frontline NHS staff should have access to regular testing.

2. Extend furlough & self-employed support to save jobs
It is disgraceful that the Chancellor has written off whole sectors of our economy. It is his job to ensure nobody is left behind. While borrowing costs next to nothing, the Chancellor is choosing to leave workers in the arts, in hospitality and other sectors without a salary. This is a heartless political choice. He must expand furlough support urgently until June 2021.

3. Protect people living and working in care
Vulnerable people living in care were appallingly let down in the first weeks of this crisis. Government must guarantee that as hospital admissions rise, all discharges from hospitals into care homes will take place only following a negative Covid test. Staff and residents must be able to access regular testing, with results within 24 hours, and the same must apply to people being supported to live independently, as well as residents of care homes. Residents in care homes have now had six months without being able to see their loved ones. To reduce isolation and loneliness, care home residents should be able to nominate at least one loved one who would be given regular testing, in order that they could visit them.

4. Support children and young people
Young people will still face huge disruption to their education this year, whether because of further lockdowns, or because they have to self-isolate. Government must do everything it can to support schools to stay open in a covid-secure way, whilst also ensuring they have the resources and skills to provide online learning. This means getting laptops and internet access to pupils from low income households. They must also extend free school meals and food vouchers to ensure every child in poverty can access them - even when schools are closed. They must provide certainty about how exams will run next year, in all likely scenarios. They must reach a fair deal for first-year university students who are being charged for accommodation they do not want to use, and ensure that everyone who wants to get home to their families between now and Christmas, is able to do so.

5. Establish a public inquiry into the handling of the crisis
Public trust in the Government's handling of this crisis is woefully low. More and more evidence is emerging that the Government has ignored scientific advice and is still failing to do what is needed. We need an independent, public inquiry, into how this has gone so badly wrong, starting as soon as possible.

Ed Davey
Leader of the Liberal Democrats

Davidhs Thu 15-Oct-20 17:33:42


‘In the Commons on Thursday, Ms Truss criticised a “blanket ban” on food products not complying with British farming regulations, telling MPs: “I want to make sure our farmers are able to continue with their high standards, but I don't want to stop developing countries exporting their goods to us.”’

Since when has the USA been a developing country?

Indeed the vast majority of extra imports will come from the USA, simply because they are the global lowest cost producer, New Zealand will also be sending us more Lamb and Dairy products.

Developing countries already send us Tropical and out of season products, it would be interesting to see how much more actually does come in

MaizieD Thu 15-Oct-20 18:18:47

Developing countries already send us Tropical and out of season products, it would be interesting to see how much more actually does come in

Countries officially designated 'developing' already export to us tariff free under the EU Everything But Arms agreement. What they export must, I presume, conform to EU food standards. It seems to me, then, that if we get anything more cheaply from them it will be products which don't conform to EU standards. EU rejects, in other words... So what do we think of that?

Davidhs Thu 15-Oct-20 20:44:55

For instance Brazil sends us Beef, amongst which are is Steak for catering in “Steak Houses” it would have to meet EU standards including from a Foot and Mouth Disease free area. There would be a limited quantity tariff free as part of the EU Brazil trade deal.

MayBee70 Thu 15-Oct-20 20:52:12

varian: did I read that some ministers or ex ministers in France have been arrested due to their handling of the pandemic?

varian Thu 15-Oct-20 23:40:49

You might have read that Maybee. I think I heard it reported..

Grany Fri 16-Oct-20 08:30:04

A pub named The Three Bellends

Guess who

Grany Fri 16-Oct-20 13:33:56

Well someone is making a protest against this government quite a lot of people will see this. Bellends.

Has this ever happened before similar protest against a government I don't think so

Shows what a complete set of corrupt Tories we have now, governing us, or is meant to.