Starmer calling for lockdown (Edited by GNHQ)

GrannyGravy13

Whatever measures are taken whilst you have totally idiotic people acting appalling as they were in Liverpool overnight we will never get the rate of infection down.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be the public consensus to go along with another total lockdown.

Bring back the water cannons and wash the idiots away !!

OMG! So now I'm in Tier 2 too! For some reason Essex County Council thinks we need to be, despite the fact that the number of new cases is still relatively low. They haven't even been able to enforce the rules we had, which is undoubtedly one of the reasons cases have been rising.

I honestly don't know whether Tier 3 restrictions or a "curcuit breaker" are right. I'm not a scientist and I agree with trisher that detailed data on how the virus is actually being transmitted is woefully lacking.

It is known from PHE data that the biggest rises are currently in the 19-24 age group, followed quite closely by the 10-18 age group. It's also known that educational settings are a major (if not the major) place of transmission in new cases.

Oh and JE. No way are you in a minority! It’s pretty evenly balanced in my book. But both sides could be accused of making it a right v left thing. Seriously I would sport a blue rosette if it meant this government taking some serious sensible enforced action.

Covid is only a left versus right situation as long as Johnson refuses to create a cross-party group to steer our reactions to it. A group guided by the scientists. It is a national problem and he needs to approach it as such. He is failing to do that, just as he failed to engage with local health and public services until yesterday.

Oppositions are there to oppose - it is one of the checks and balances of our political system. Starmer is tying to steer a course between undermining the public's cooperation with any measures that are in place, whilst knowing that this government has made a pig's ear of covid policies.

Firstly thanks to those who have posted that they didn't know about the Asian flu in '57 and '68. I was beginning to think I was the only one! I remember talk about it but nothing much changed and I don't remember anyone having it.
As far as a national lockdown goes I think that the time has actually passed. The scientific advice was a short one in late September. It never happened. Now it's too late. I'd like to see abit more information and research about the infection and where it is traced to. The problem is I think that the system being used is massively incompetent. It should be possible with technology to discover more about where transmission is greatest. The other thing I would like to see is local authorities being given the right to shut down any business which is not introducing or using the proper safety measures.

Iam64

growstuff, there is to be an announcement around 11 am in which Greater Manchester and Lancashire will move into tier 3. Andy Burnham is looking into legal action in his attempt to ensure effective financial and other support from the government. I voted against Manchester having a Mayor because of the financial cost etc but when the Mayoral election took place, voted for Andy Burnham. He and the other "northern" mayors are fighting for their regions.
I'm with Starmer's call for a circuit breaker, the improvement of track and trace, and for local government to be involved in that. They have the local knowledge and experience. The Salisbury killings are proof of that.

vegans rock, yes outrageous that private contracts to friend and associates of Cummings and co are being handed out

It was "leaked" to Sky yesterday evening. I'm with you all the way. Test and Trace needs to be massively improved and local authorities need to be involved.

Andy Burnham tweeted yesterday that he had had a meeting, but wasn't going to say any more. Then there was the announcement on Sky and Burnham did tweet again. He hadn't been told that it had been signed off and (to say the least) wasn't best pleased that he hadn't been told. He had been trying to get adequate compensation for the people whose businesses will have to close and the workers in them.

On a personal level, my daughter and her partner live in Greater Manchester, so will be affected. My daughter has continued working from home, although it hasn't always been easy. However, her partner is a scientist, who is doing research on Coronavirus and works outside the area. I wonder if he will be allowed to leave the area to go to work.

Some posters on a Gransnet are determined to make the Covid crisis a left versus right situation. It’s not!

Posters who are saying things like this are the ones who are creating a left/right situation.

I support the circuit breaker proposal because it is the one that makes sense and is supported by the scientific advice. Had Johnson proposed it I would have supported it.

As it is, there is no scientific or empirical evidence for the implementation of the 'tier' system. Some of the tier 2 areas have had the 'tier 2' restrictions for weeks with no positive effect whatsoever on their infection rates. So I don't support it.

It's that simple. Not political at all.

Some posters on a Gransnet are determined to make the Covid crisis a left versus right situation.

Not once have I attempted to turn thus into a political left versus right situation!

Don't worry, I'm sure forward planning is in place.

Is that some kind of parody?

BarmeyoldBat I'm sure that many various contingency plans are being discussed but no point in announcing anything until nearer the time, as Ellianne says.

Of course plans are being discussed and put in place for 10 weeks down the line but he certainly isn't going to announce anything yet. I said earlier, going into panic mode is neither healthy nor productive for anyone. Don't worry, I'm sure forward planning is in place.

There are more of us than you think Jennifer. There have also been other balanced contributions from Ellianne, and Laura.
Some posters on a Gransnet are determined to make the Covid crisis a left versus right situation. It’s not! It’s a difficult situation being managed and sometimes decisions are right and others turn out to be wrong. I can see that that certain decisions that were made were at best unhelpful, but whoever was in power, this would not be an easy time, and they would not get everything right. Perhaps those of you who know exactly how it should be managed should offer your services to the government.

No Sparklefizz Boris doesn't have a crystal ball but he can at least think (if thats possible) what will I do if the rates are still very high nearer Christmas, roughly 10 weeks away. A bit of forward planning.

BarmeyoldBat How can Boris have a plan for Christmas which is months away when he doesn't have a crystal ball to see how infections will go? The Govt - any Govt anywhere - has to react to the circumstances.

JenniferEccles, Ellianne and LauraNorder -I agree with you.

I don’t agree that “Starmer of course just wants to come up with a different idea just for the sake of being different.”

He comes up with a different idea because he believes it’s a good idea, exactly like Johnson surely ?

Oh thank you LauraNorder*
I know I am in the minority on here !

No it's to do with the many issues that those in education told you about the return of schools. We told people over and over again. People wanted schools back I have no idea what they are complaining about, they got what they wanted.

The virus will not go away and we are likely to face annual vaccination for the prevalent strain, just as we do with flu. The aim should be to prevent the medical services being overwhelmed and protect the vulnerable during the time it takes to develop a vaccine.

I absolutely agree that there should be cross-party co-operation and consultation over Covid - it is not a party issue; it is about leaders getting together to sift through the scientific advice. Starmer is between a rock and a hard place - he needs to challenge the government on its covid policy when they get it wrong whilst not undermining public cooperation with measures that are put in place.

Sounds sensible to me JenniferEccles and * Laura Norder*. I don't know much about politics, but I do know the PM is right to target the areas causing the problems and agree we need to keep as much of the country running as normally aspossible. Isn't France doing exactly the same thing placing a curfew on its densely populated and large university cities (Lille, Toulouse etc.)? The Netherlands too? In a few weeks' time the results can be assessed, but I feel now is not the time for total panic and shut down.
Incidentally, the evidence shows boarding schools are coping well and are not reporting cases anywhere near the numbers secondary schools and 6th form colleges are. Why? Because they are well and truly within their bubbles and the pupils are NOT allowed out to pubs and bars under any circumstances. They are doing their bit big time and NOT breaking any rules.
To my mind that suggests that schools themselves are in general probably doing a good job, but it is the mixing outside by the youngsters, and the teachers going out at weekends, (yes, they do!), which is causing the problems in this sector.

I can't understand how they decide which tier to put towns in. There are towns and areas in the south with a very high number of infections but have not moved up a tier, in Wales they have put towns into lockdown with a lower infection rate then England I do agree with the tier system but they must stop people in those areas from travelling out to lower infected areas areas. Also Boris needs to have a plan for Christmas, a time when students will travel home and families will meet up, also people traveling in and out of the country. Does he have a plan? or is it just wait and see and make it up as we go along.

JenniferEccles

I still think the PM’s strategy is the way to go.

The numbers vary so much around the country that a national lockdown would not make sense at all.

Starmer of course just wants to come up with a different idea just for the sake of being different.

I did however like the suggestion from one poster on here that maybe his suggestion should be taken up, on the condition that he (Starmer ) copes with all the resultant flack when it doesn’t work !

We need to keep as much of the country running as normally as possible whilst attempting to prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed, and that is exactly what the PM is trying to do.

How about us all getting behind him and supporting him rather than constantly whinging, when he is clearly doing his dammdest to help the country through this?

Thank you JenniferEccles for an excellent post yesterday. I agree with every word.

growstuff, there is to be an announcement around 11 am in which Greater Manchester and Lancashire will move into tier 3. Andy Burnham is looking into legal action in his attempt to ensure effective financial and other support from the government. I voted against Manchester having a Mayor because of the financial cost etc but when the Mayoral election took place, voted for Andy Burnham. He and the other "northern" mayors are fighting for their regions.
I'm with Starmer's call for a circuit breaker, the improvement of track and trace, and for local government to be involved in that. They have the local knowledge and experience. The Salisbury killings are proof of that.

vegans rock, yes outrageous that private contracts to friend and associates of Cummings and co are being handed out

Private test n trace consultants earning £7,000 A DAY. Worth it?

Local lockdowns only make sense if travel in/out of the locked down area is completely stopped and that's pretty impossible to achieve.
As for the media, without the journalists challenging the government during the lockdown when MPs weren't meeting, BJ and Cummings would have been totally unaccountable. As it is, they are getting away with murder, and how the whole situation can be depoliticised I have no idea. The contracts that have been awarded to testing labs owned by friends and family of governments ministers, and that have totally failed to meet their promises are a disgrace and these things continue to happen behind the scenes so as for giving the current measures a chance, I'm against that. Every day is a death for one poor family. This government isn't worth that.