Is there such a thing as historical, cultural trauma?

I'm not sure that family trauma is so powerful as belonging to a group (nation or ethnic group) which has has been humiliated or defeated as a whole.

I'm English to the core, so I don't know what it's like to feel that I belong to a group which was subservient at some time in history (within the last 500 years anyway).

Trauma for the first few generations maybe but beyond that I don’t think so.

trisher

But Whitewavemark2 it isn't only people of African descent who experience racism because of the colour of their skin. Indian and Pakistani people are treated in a similar way. Is this somehow lessened because they don't have the "trauma" of slavery inside them?
Do we think Pritt Patel carries trauma inside her because her parents were Indian refugees from Africa?

No but the OP was talking about trauma of past experienced history. I was giving and explanation for two historical traumas. It has nothing to do with racism per se.

My grandmother lost two brothers in WW1. They were aged 21 and 24. As a child I saw her cry many times over these lost young men. As a consequence I feel saddened by her loss and my great grandmother’s loss, and I feel it’s my duty to remember on November 11th each year. However I don’t feel traumatised by the these losses. I’m proud of my father who fought in WW2 and sadly was injured, but I don’t feel traumatised by his experience. I do think that descendants from the Holocaust or Slavery in America may feel a strong attachment to their family members who suffered, and the experience of further anti Semitic behaviour or racist behaviour will reinforce these feelings.

It involves songs, poetry, story telling and religion too, many of which become part of a people's culture.

Closer to home, ask many Irish people about their history - not just recent history such as the "troubles", but going back to the times before Ireland was split. Somebody on here wrote that they'd like to see the island of Ireland as one country, but I don't think many loyalists would agree.

Every human is made up of differing multi-nationalities, which through the generations likely to have suffered different traumas - so doesn't this inhibit a clearly identifiable one cause?

It is a truly interesting question. Our family is massively mixed- but it is only recently that our eldest daughter and one of our nieces, have become really interested in their ancestry. Others is the family just are not interested, or rather, just do not want to know- don't want to upset their comfortable apple-cart.

They have also become very interested to the concept of 'mixed race' - as our daughters and nieces are all white, but have this beautiful exotic look, and 2 of them very curly hair. One of them was picked on the spot by the Storm agency- as she is so beautiful because of her ancestry.

Aparthheid in South Africa was so so recent- and very much alive when they were born and grew up- so it is so shocking for them to know their own close family went through all of this, their homes and lands taken, their exclusions from so many professions, and so much more.

It certainly makes you think and certainly makes you more empathetic- when you know your won ancestors, over Centuries had to go through all of this, enslavement and having to flee their home. Humility, too.

Epigenetic studies reveal the reality of possibility.

Trisher I think you might find the inherited trauma theory came as a result of 9/11 in the USA. Babies of pregnant women caught up in it and surviving were subject to test to see what effect if any the event had on them. It is believed to show evidence of stress similar to that of their mother - which is not surprising.

There was also another, I believe Scandinavian, investigation into starvation (under nourished) deaths of the past and whether the same trauma levels in present day generations - and the conclusion there were.

Interesting subject and if any one knows more please let us know.

I think too that it depends on how you were brought up, if your family are constantly telling you stories handed down through the generations of how badly your ancestors have been treated, then I think it becomes a very real issue for you.
And some people are just unable to move past it, whilst others can.

Quite E.V!! I had an Irish G.Grandmother who came to England as a young woman seeking a better life, not sure if it was all she hoped for! Another 3 times great grandmother, had an illegitimate son, clearly lived a hard and difficult life which ended in the Workhouse! Poor soul, I do feel for her, but not traumatised! Have lost various relations in both wars, including my own father! Again,very saddened, but not traumatised!!

Many things are mind over matter---because IT happened.

It all depends whether you wish to bring certain subjects to the forefront of your mind and for what purpose, whether to help process and move forward or spend the rest of your life festering.

EllanVannin

Only if you want it to be.

I think that you might feel differently if you are held to be a lesser human/uncivilised because of your race and the colour of your skin.

Only if you want it to be.

Like you Callistemon also have French Huguenot as well as some Jewish ancestry, both persecuted by Catholics, which is an irony for my family because we are predominantly Catholic.

We have Huguenot ancestry and a younger family member wondered whether that was the reason some family members, including her, picked up the French language easily and the ability to speak it without an English accent.

However, I don't feel any inherent trauma.

What about the descendants of those transported to Australia do they carry trauma?
I've spoken to people whose ancestors were transported; what was once a cause of shame is now something to be proud of, a badge of honour.

I do wonder if there is such a thing as genetic memory.

Alexa did you watch Grayson Perry's programme about the USA and his visit to Atlanta?

I think it's quite likely that Pakistani and Indian people may well carry the trauma of the atrocities that occurred during the upheaval of the "Partition" and from what I read about present day India it seems that the Muslims who live there are very much a persecuted minority.

Sectarianism is ever present in many parts of the world. A few weeks ago on the ITV news there was a piece to suggest there is an under reporting of the plight of the Uighur Muslims in China, the trauma of those people must be considerable.

I have slave ancestry and Jewish ancestry (the Jewish bit was well established in England by the beginning of the 19th C so I'm not sure that counts). Nobody could tell that by looking at me so I suffer nothing directly.

I feel sorrow for the way that my slave ancestors were treated but greater sorrow for the way that, as WwMk2 says, folk of African descent are treated as less than white folk even today.

But I also feel the same for any racial group that is treated that way.

So, no trauma as such, but sadness.

My father lost his whole family in the war, my mother her only sibling. My grandmother was traumatized by an event in the first world war that affected her all her life, apart from losing a beloved son in Ww2. So I reckon we as a family have suffered, like so many others. Isn't it called life?

Slave consciousness in the US is perpetuated not by the knowledge that your ancestors were slaves, but by ongoing unfair distribution of goods and services. Descendants of slaves are still largely poor people who as we know are also unfairly targeted by police.

But Whitewavemark2 it isn't only people of African descent who experience racism because of the colour of their skin. Indian and Pakistani people are treated in a similar way. Is this somehow lessened because they don't have the "trauma" of slavery inside them?
Do we think Pritt Patel carries trauma inside her because her parents were Indian refugees from Africa?

I think trauma continues in Jewish and black folk, because the issues involved have never stopped.

Jews still experience anti-semitism which resulted in the holocaust.

And folk of African descent still experience the form of racism that suggests that they are less than white folk.

It could go on for ever couldn't it? What about the so called 'Upper Classes'? Those beheaded in the French Revolution, those who were killed in the Russian purges - both the aristocrats (their king and his family were shot) and the cruel Jewish pogroms?
How far back should we go - does anyone carry trauma from the Great Plague?
Will future generations be damaged by memories of Covid 19?