Who will be left in the Labour Party?

Corbyn has split the Labour Party

Casdon I read the speeches and I fully acknowledge that as far as speech making in the H of C goes Starmer outclasses the government. The problem being that that seems to be as far as he goes. Boris is out making public appearances but Starmer is nowhere to be seen. Perhaps he thinks he is doing enough but he obviously isn't. Perhaps he has been trapped in the Westminster and legal bubbles for too long and doesn't want to get mixed up in the real world. I really don't know, but someone who splits the LP as he is doing stands absolutely no chance of becoming government no matter how Tory -lite he becomes.

Galaxy me too.
re your post of 15. 56.

Nope not at all, not on the doorstep. Way too simplistic analysis of what happened.

Galaxy

I suppose we all have different views of the lowest ebb, mine was watching my north east labour stronghold being taken by the tories at the last election. But again it depends if getting elected is of any interest to you, it is always those who need a labour party least who dont care about being elected.

Many traditional Labour supporters in the North East and elsewhere voted Tory at the last election for on reason and one reason only "Brexit". They had voted Leave in the referendum and the simple Tory message of "Get Brexit Done" resonated with those voters and that gave Johnson his overwhelming majority.

Labour could not have such a simple message due to its remain supporters in the south, and that proved to be a divide that could not be bridged and would not have been bridged whoever had been the leader.

I suppose we all have different views of the lowest ebb, mine was watching my north east labour stronghold being taken by the tories at the last election. But again it depends if getting elected is of any interest to you, it is always those who need a labour party least who dont care about being elected.

Well even if, trisher, even if ...

what next? For the first time in a very long time, the LP is electable- for several reasons, not least the fact the Tories run by the ERG have been shown for who they truly are, and how far they are prepared to go to ruin the country and line their own pockets.

I just cannot believe that you are prepared to let the Tories scupper the country and sell it to all and sundry- because Starmer is not your perfect socialist with a big S.

The point is that you aren’t willing to listen.
labour.org.uk/category/latest/press-release/keir-starmer/
You could start here (I am fully expecting a response along the lines of your previous posts, obviously - but I do appreciate that you are right of course - or should I say left!)

If someone could post me one action, or one statement that shows Starmer has responded to the pandemic and supported the people suffering most I am quite willing to listen. What I won't accept is that it is political dogma to believe his response to Corbyn has in any way been either fair or measured, or to think that he is failing in his responsibilities as Leader of the Opposition by not holding the government to account and speaking up for the poorest.

Anniebach

When Corbyn was leader McClusky said ‘those who don’t
support the leader should leave the party ‘

Yep straight as a die

McCluskey was being straight when he stated that, for as we all know now the right in the Labour Party commenced undermining Corbyn from the day he was first elected.

Starmer had the support of the whole movement on the day he was first elected but he has demonstrated he is only leading in the interests of the extreme right in the party. In that policy, he has brought the party and movement to the lowest ebb it has seen in its more than one hundred year history.

Starmer is, without doubt, the most incompetent, dysfunctional and worst leader the Labour Party has ever had.

I think Jeremy Corbyn would have thought through his statement and making sure he didn't offend anyone least of all the Jewish community What he said was permitted in the EHRC report If anything it is Starmer who is going against the EHRC by his political intervention.

I always think trisher gives straight answers no political dogma

I agree with Oldtimer60 well said.

When Corbyn was leader McClusky said ‘those who don’t
support the leader should leave the party ‘

Yep straight as a die

I think anybody who fails to listen at all to any view other than the one they believe is guilty of political dogma trisher. You need to temper your posts with les condescension if you want people to listen to you - it’s nothing to do with social justice, which I do believe in.

Regarding what Corbyn stated on the day of the release of the report, Len McCluskey was party to the phone discussions between Corbyn and Starmer on the evening before the public release. In that, McCluskey is stating that Starmer was well aware of what Corbyn would say the following morning and he never once disagreed with that forthcoming statement during that phone conversation. However, next day what Corbyn said was totally wrong according to Starmer.

Len McCluskey has been accused of many things in his long trade union career, but he has the reputation throughout the Labour movement of calling things as they are and being as "straight as a die" in what he says. So, I know who I believe in this disagreement.

Casdon Do you really think that believing someone should be speaking out for the poorest and weakest who are suffering most is "political dogma"?

Because regardless of if you love or hate him he is yesterday's man. The only people keeping him in the headlines are Starmer (for whatever reason) and those who persist in believing he is somehow relevant. He hasn't made another public statement in over a month.

Keeping Corbyn on the front pages and criticising Starmer is a sure way to gain support for the tories

Why are MaizieD's feelings about Corbyn irrelevant ?

I know it’s sometimes hard to accept that other people’s views don’t match your own trisher, and I’ve also had cause to remind you previously that because we don’t agree does not mean that we are unintelligent, lacking in insight, less well read than you or unable to analyse political situations and reach our own conclusions. Political dogma does not win my support whichever end of the spectrum it comes from.

MaizieD how you feel about Corbyn is irrelevant.

Starmer is looking to the longer term future of the LP

Yes Corbyn is no longer leader but he continues to undermine the leadership, as he always has. Given his position as former leader, what he does and says is likely to be given more publicity than during his years on the back benches.

Casdon if all you can gather from my post is that he might be centrist it's a sad state of affairs. No one should be playing right against left in the LP at the moment, no one should be thinking about if they will get voted in by a centrist vote. They should be focussing on exposing what is really hapening how the poorest and weakest are suffering the most from this pandemic, how badly this is being dealt with and how much of it is the result of years of Tories cutting the services which maintain standards in society.

So, is there anyone on the Labour benches that holds such abilities and command such respect

I think that you and I were thinking along the same lines in respect of that question, Oldtimer.

I think the answer is probably 'no'.

Which is a tragedy for the UK (or whatever remains of it in 4 years time)

MaizieD had Starmer chosen to ignore Corbyn and move things on this would be yesterday's news.

That is an absolutely pathetic excuse, trisher. Corbyn knew what Starmer was going to say, Starmer had briefed him on it the day before. Corbyn deliberately inflamed the situation and if the LP breaks up he will be the catalyst. Sorry, no respect left for him.

Which is sad, because I think that all along he was actually a decent and humane bloke.

Harold Wilson held the respect of the left !

www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jan/01/past.nationalarchives