The E.U. And AstraZeneca row.

Welshwife the EU prevaricated and held out for a bargain in the AZ case, as they were not prepared to pay the full price.
They were also way behind us with their order, and did not pay the millions that the UK did to help the vaccine get under way.It was a gamble for us, as the vaccine may not have worked, but thankfully it did.
The EU commission have been out of line with their strong arm tactics and are now regretting it.

Welshwife your source please for the evidence in Invermectin?
Which does not state ‘ it will kill the virus within 48 hours’ I suggest you read this%:

No Callistemon, it was in a press briefing in Paris on Friday afternoon, that the French president said the jab “doesn't work the way we were expecting it to”.
Presumably in French.

Oh no, don't tell me Emmanuel is on GN spreading fake news?

Not the Pfizer vaccine I think Welshwife
Emmanuel Macron is reported as having been accused of making “nonsense” and “untrue” claims about the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab that risked undermining public confidence in the UK’s vaccine programme.
Senior MPs and scientists have accused the French president of failing to understand the science after he claimed that the vaccine “doesn’t work as expected” and appeared to be “quasi-ineffective” in over-65s.

the story can be looked at from many different angles
Yes, as can any story

Schadenfreude and crowing victory is not going to take us forwards- not on this matter, and certainly not on others
It certainly is not, and as cupafull says "Honestly you couldn't make it up"

The irony hasn't escaped me!

But yes, even if the EU did not exactly cover themselves with glory - Schadenfreude and crowing victory is not going to take us forwards- not on this matter

I could not agree more and that would be my answer to this question which you, yourself posed

' Interesting the UK Govt , namely Johnson , has been incredibly quiet over the vaccine issue and not been drawn into an argument . Normally he'd been shouting the benefits of his policies to all and sundry , but interestingly he is silent . Why ?''

The EU did also prepay for the vaccine - 300 million. There was insufficient money to build the facility needed. AZ have been unable to keep their side of the contract - they are the cause of the problem promising two customers - U.K. and EU - that the supplies each require will not be disrupted.
Macron has said that they prefer not to give the Pfizer (I think) vaccine to the older population simply because there is insufficient data on how good it is for that group - when there is more data they will review the situation.
There is now evidence that a drug developed in 1985 - ivermectin - will kill the virus within 48 hours - maybe this should also be looked at again.

I agree Nemesia we are where we are, someone will drag Dominic Cummings in next!
Yes Biba the figure is appalling, but this thread is specifically about events of the last few days regarding tussles over the AstraZenica vaccine.

"Honestly you couldn't make it up"

biba70

Someone elsewhere just asked this question

''Interesting the UK Govt , namely Johnson , has been incredibly quiet over the vaccine issue and not been drawn into an argument . Normally he'd been shouting the benefits of his policies to all and sundry , but interestingly he is silent . Why ?''

interesting, I think. Why?

For once why does he need to?? They are making a sufficient hash of this themselves.
Can you even credit them shooting themselves in the foot by invoking Article 16? I'll bet the Taoiseach was apoplectic!

I choked on my supper at that! Shortly thereafter the decision was revoked thank God. Honestly you count make it up!

Early yesterday, it was frightening to witness the panic stricken looks on the EU Commissioners faces as theyweretrying to sort out the cock ups and given the riots on the streets of some European cities no wonder.

Hopefully sense will reign and the vaccines can be shared equably for the benefit of all, us and our neighbours.

Not like the spiteful actions on exports reported at the EU entry points but then we need to rise above that.

But it’s got nothing to do with the unwieldy process of the the EU that has caused their problem with the vaccines.

Just trying to deflect, eh?

Smileless2012

It's not the same thing biba. Taking a different route to ensure a sufficient supply of vaccines isn't the same as trying to block pre ordered and pre paid for vaccines, to compensate for a failure to be as pro active as you should have been.

Yes biba "we have to work with Europe, and they with us" and the EU haven't exactly covered themselves in glory over their attempt to deprive the UK of vaccines already ordered and paid for, as well as redacting parts of the contract they had with their supplier so they would appear to be in the right, when they knew they weren't.

the story can be looked at from many different angles. Did you watch the link I put above, by the scientist Mike Galsworthy? Probably not.

But yes, even if the EU did not exactly cover themselves with glory - Schadenfreude and crowing victory is not going to take us forwards- not on this matter, and certainly not on others- where we NEED cooperation with the EU, be it on security sharing, and vital imports and exports... on all essential goods and services, never mind 'just' vaccines.

it has to do with how we got to where we are now 100.000 and growing.

MayBee70

It’s a pity he was so busy standing up to ‘these bullies’,sorting out his divorce etc at the start of the year and couldn’t be bothered to attend COBRA meetings or he might have noticed there was a pandemic.

What on earth has that got to do with this thread?

It's not the same thing biba. Taking a different route to ensure a sufficient supply of vaccines isn't the same as trying to block pre ordered and pre paid for vaccines, to compensate for a failure to be as pro active as you should have been.

Yes biba "we have to work with Europe, and they with us" and the EU haven't exactly covered themselves in glory over their attempt to deprive the UK of vaccines already ordered and paid for, as well as redacting parts of the contract they had with their supplier so they would appear to be in the right, when they knew they weren't.

Agree Lemongrove.

vegansrock

The government, unlike some Brexit supporters on here, are playing this down, they have to tread carefully over NI, and we have to work with the EU over many issues, so they are, for once, being wisely diplomatic. The EU have quickly dropped the original threats, showing that they can easily rectify a mistake, and admit it. Our government would be wise to learn from this. Obviously it’s best not to put your foot in it in the first place .

Since we are not politicians, we don’t have to be diplomatic
But can speak our minds.
I think our government has played it exactly right, and are making friendly noises now about vaccines to the EU.
Politically the right thing to do, makes the UK look very gracious indeed.

Whether in or out of the EU, and be it on vaccines, or imports/exports, security and so much more- we have to work with Europe, and they with us. All the sabre/vaccine rattling is not good for anyone. Because we will win some and certainly lose some too- cooperation is the only way forwards.

Wow! I don’t think I could have been that gracious?

She was my MP for a short while and I was ashamed to admit it!

Well, she is quite a controversial figure. Right from the start of the pandemic countries that did well in controlling the virus had people in government with scientific backgrounds and Kate Bingham studied biochemistry. I wish they’d listen more to David Davis, an MP who has a scientific background and someone who talks a lot of sense (about COVID that is!). I will always give credit where credit is due. I even wrote and thanked Nadine Dories when she spoke in parliament about the importance of mask wearing. Never thought I’d see the day when she and I were besties. She soon did something infuriating yet again though, so my admiration was short lived.

Hmm, one of the much criticised ‘mates contracts’ was to the woman who’s masterminded the Vaccine procurement.

Anybody who who was quite vociferous at the time (posters on Gransnet) and called for the immediate resignation of Kate Bingham like to retract their criticism of her.

No I thought not?

There was never, and never could be ,a logical solution to NI being in the UK and not in the EU without there being a border on the island of Ireland.

They definitely "misspoke" but have realised and are sorting it out. This guy is a in the "one swallow does not a summer make" club.

The government, unlike some Brexit supporters on here, are playing this down, they have to tread carefully over NI, and we have to work with the EU over many issues, so they are, for once, being wisely diplomatic. The EU have quickly dropped the original threats, showing that they can easily rectify a mistake, and admit it. Our government would be wise to learn from this. Obviously it’s best not to put your foot in it in the first place .