Sexual Harassment of Girls and Young Women

It's absolutely awful what young girls are experiencing today, I perceive my early teen years were nothing like as traumatic. I read an awful article in The Times the other day, mentioned one public school in south London that was ridden with complaints from young women as to how male pupils treat their female peer group, I imagine that it's not confined to any particular type of school from what I read it's endemic. Pornography must play a part it's just too accessible and I have no doubt warps the minds of the susceptible young people who view that. I thought the page 3 pin up culture of the '70s was awful at the time the way that men used it as a yard stick to judge and appraise other women. I shudder for my granddaughter, still a little girl at aged 10 and all the other young girls on the cusp of adolescence. How mentally and physically to scarring be subjected to pernicious sexual bullying, harassment and worse.

Back in the day porn was accessible in magazines, newspapers and books.
It isn't long ago women were going mad over 50 Shades of Grey.
I don't think you can lay assaults of women at the door of internet porn.
As with racism, misogyny is institutional and in the every day experiences of women.
We may never fully fix the problem, but awareness of how we regard women in society as not deserving of the freedoms men enjoy is a start.

I remember 30 years ago ( she was 9) my dd came home from a school friends house and told me her friend had shown her her ( policeman’) father’s hidden stash of porn magazines. I was really shocked I know however it’s so incredibly easy now to access and it’s much ‘harder’.

Oldwoman70

Anyone else find most newspapers are hypocritical about this subject? They print article after article condemning the harassment of women yet next to those articles are pictures of scantily dressed women with headlines like "** shows off her stunning figure".

Yes yes a thousand times yes

Negative attitudes to women have been around since time began .Peter Sutcliffe wouldn’t have had internet porn. Over the last few decades some attitudes have been seen to be unacceptable ...look at comedy shows on the tv and
Harassment in the workplace. However any improvement through education has in my view been eroded by extreme porn. I have no personal experience but have read several reports on the subject.

Anyone else find most newspapers are hypocritical about this subject? They print article after article condemning the harassment of women yet next to those articles are pictures of scantily dressed women with headlines like "** shows off her stunning figure".

Porn used to be much more difficult to access. The fact it’s now available on any mobile phone normalises it’s use. It’s im[ossible to have worked with abuse not to make the connection with porn

Iam64

Why do you dismiss porn as a negative contributor to the other issues you raise trisher? I agree with the rest of your post, though I’m not sure you’re turning into a grumpy old woman. It’s been an awful week newswise

I think it contributes Iam64 but I don't think it is the main driver. If we hadn't a culture that encourages and promotes the negative attitudes it does we might have a different sort of porn.I agree it is tangled in the whole thing, but it is the normalising of a lack of sympathy and consideration for other people that means porn caters for those and simply takes them further than other forms of entertainment.

In my view the misogyny of some men is the uglier side of male bonding, being 'one of the lads' down the pub, or at the match, or wherever. Men in a gang, especially when fueled by alcohol and exchanging lewd comments, can behave like pack animals. If this could be stopped it would go along way to discouraging the disrespecting of women.

For some reason which escapes me, it seems that the female 52% of the population are seen as fair game in some quarters.

Misogyny should surely be criminalized, like racism and disrespecting the disabled or LGBTQ communities. Why not?

Why do you dismiss porn as a negative contributor to the other issues you raise trisher? I agree with the rest of your post, though I’m not sure you’re turning into a grumpy old woman. It’s been an awful week newswise

I don't think it is mainly to do with porn, or that it is only a male problem. I think it is a reflection of how our culture and society has changed and how attitudes and opinions which would once have been condemned have become the norm. TV programmes like Naked Attraction, Love Island, I'm a Celebrity invite everyone to criticise and judge others, girls and boys are the subject of scrutiny and their actions are watched and criticised. Subjecting others to degrading and frightening trials is normal and is rewarded. Any wonder then that we have a generation whose values are skewed?
I'm turning into a grumpy old woman aren't I?
What I think is saddest is that the sexual and personal freedoms we once fought for, haven't become something which gives young people happiness and joy, but instead ways of humilating, damaging and harming others.

Porn is part of that every day power that you are talking about.

Sorry - analysis = anal

It also influences how young men think female genitalia should look - hairless and ‘neat’. This in turn has led to an increase in young women seeking labiaplasty which sadly private clinics are happy to carry out on girls as young as 16 and 17. À and E departments have also over recent years reported an increase in female analysis injuries as young men act out anal sex acts which are widespread in porn. It’s truly dreadful

By the way * keepingquiet* you can Google the subject to find the alarming facts about how many young children and adolescents do watch porn , and the effect it has on them

I don’t have any data at my fingertips , but it has been asserted many time that young children watch porn. Sexual aggression is about power, and porn is no longer about riske magazines kept on the top shelf in the news agents any more. It has also been proved to influence the way men see women.

Atqui

One of the problems is that children start watching porn when they are still in primary school, so in a way they are being indoctrinated into believing that degradation of women is normal.Hence the problem will be bigger when these boys come of age, if nothing is done about its.

What? I hope small children (or even older ones) watching porn is quite rare.
We are seeing things the wrong way round here.
Men attacking women is not a sexual thing but an assertion of power.
Girls grow up seeing men in privileged positions in all areas of life. In the home despite our best efforts women are still deemed lower in status than men.
During this pandemic it has been women (mostly in caring and teaching jobs) that have born the brunt of home schooling, giving up work to care for relatives etc and have been found to be far worse off now the pandemic is easing.
Where is our awareness of the everyday debt we owe to women behind supermarket tills and cleaning jobs?
Forget porn, unless the everyday power shifts take place men will always be easy about walking home at night.
Personally I would make it illegal for men to be out on the streets at night and see how they like it.

One of the problems is that children start watching porn when they are still in primary school, so in a way they are being indoctrinated into believing that degradation of women is normal.Hence the problem will be bigger when these boys come of age, if nothing is done about its.

So what is stopping our daughters and grand-daughters from changing their world, with or without the help of our sons and grandsons?

Because men need to change.

Without them changing, nothing will change.

Men are the problem.

“Good” men need to tackle that

NellG

Keepingquiet I couldn't agree more, however having once been part of a programme to educate such men I am at a loss to know how. The kind of men who act out this behaviour already know it's wrong, they just don't care.

You are right about the men who know this is wrong but just don't care - however, if boys and men are educated as to the effect harassment (and worse) has on women more men may speak out when they hear or see those men acting inappropriately.

Glad I found this thread - one of the threads about the vigil had developed into discussing some of the issues above. Better it’s a separate thread now. I want to add ( although it might be a bit oblique) that I’m shocked that the probationer police officer has not been suspended. The message to women and girls is appalling. How dare they let him stay at work and put on that uniform?

IMO boys and men need to be taught that sexual harassment is wrong, as is racist abuse and any form of bullying and violence we can think of.

Girls and women need to be taught to be confident about speaking out if they experience sexual harassment,

This basically means that society needs to be more willing to believe women who say they have been subjected to it.

Neither sex should submit to blackmail, which is what is happening when schoolgirls and boys are forced to send nude pictures of themselves to anyone.

We may or may not be able to change predators of either sex, but if proven rape carried a life sentence then other women would be protected from that particular rapist and it might just make some potential rapists reconsider their proclivities.

If girls and women, young men and boys can protect themselves either by going to law, or by learning self-defence then there is a fair chance of less of any violent crime.

Changing attitudes is hard, but we who were young women in the 1970s did manage to stop the blue jokes that were a feature of many places of work, the groping hands likewise encountered there,and the attitude that housework and rearing children was basically a wife's job, however much the husband wanted children.

We also, with help from many right-minded men managed to gain access to contraceptives and legal abortions, higher education and careers.

So what is stopping our daughters and grand-daughters from changing their world, with or without the help of our sons and grandsons?

I remember growing up in the 60s and 70s. I was assaulted at age 10 but also went into a workplace where men felt entitled without question to make remarks about women all the time.
I am glad things have changed, and can change again.
You won't change some predatory men, and unfortunately women will always be subject to assault, as are young men.
However, saying we cannot change some things is very defeatist and worrying.
Women still feel they have to 'put up' with stuff, and I don't get why that is.

The men who wouldn’t abuse women don’t need ‘educating’. My experience of group or individual work with domestic or sex abusers doesn’t instil me with confidence.

The persistent shift of blame to women has been evident on Gransnet on a number of threads. Grooming victims seen as contributing to their exploitation, just one example.

Keepingquiet I couldn't agree more, however having once been part of a programme to educate such men I am at a loss to know how. The kind of men who act out this behaviour already know it's wrong, they just don't care.