Is the Government threatening our democracy - Part 2

It is the acceptance of corruption by the voter that puzzles me.

What puzzles me is why so many people who value our democracy have been so willing to give up our fundamental freedoms over the last year.

I'm afraid the two cannot be disentangled. Once the voters say to a government "We'll do anything you tell us if you think it will keep us safe" they cannot be surprised if freedoms they once valued are lost forever.

And whereas we are only given the chance to vote out a government once every five years, we have had ample chance over the last 13 months to say to them "You have gone too far and we will take no more"

Take off your mask, hug your grandchildren, walk in the park with whomever you wish, reclaim your freedoms and vote for the party that will uphold the democracy many fought and died for.

The net seems to be tightening, but I’m still not convinced that the government will ever answer the many many questions.

It is the acceptance of corruption by the voter that puzzles me.

If you took us back 20 or 30 years the voter would be utterly horrified at what has been happening during the past few years.

Why have out standards dropped so badly, why are we willing to accept such corruption?

Thank you for posting that Dinahmo. What an excellent summation. In reply to your question - I have no real answer - I can only guess that most people feel there is little they can do and the opposition is hogtied by its left wing
But we do need someone or several someones, to be brave and attack those who are destroying our standing in the world, our Union and our democracy, from the inside out.

Yet another (former) govt advisor criticising the govt's activities - taken from the Guardian today.

"Boris Johnson’s government has been accused of corruption, privatising the NHS by stealth, operating a “chumocracy” and mishandling the pandemic and climate crisis, by Sir David King, a former government chief scientist.

“I am extremely worried about the handling of the coronavirus pandemic, about the processes by which public money has been distributed to private sector companies without due process,” he told the Guardian in an interview. “It really smells of corruption.”

King contrasted the success of the vaccination programme, carried out by the NHS, with the failure of the government’s test-and-trace operation, which has been contracted out to private companies. "

"King rejected the argument that the government had to act quickly to counter the pandemic and had been forced to ignore normal processes in doing so. “People say it’s a crisis – I say the government is using a crisis to privatise sections of the healthcare system in a way that is completely wrong,” he said. “A fraction of this money going to public services would have been far better results.”

He accused the government of acting deliberately to carry out ideological aims of privatising the NHS. “It is slipping this through in the name of a pandemic – effectively, to privatise the NHS by stealth,” he said. “I’m quite sure this has not been an accident, I’m quite sure this has been the plan, there has been clarity in this process. The audacity has been amazing.” "

King, who has made the climate crisis one of his key areas of focus, is also concerned about the police and crime bill, which would give police the powers to shut down protests regarded as a nuisance.

He said: “It’s extremely worrying, as we pride ourselves in Britain on having developed a true democracy. Any democracy needs to give voice to dissent. There’s a real danger that we’re going down a pathway that leads away from democracy.”

King rejected the argument that the government had to act quickly to counter the pandemic and had been forced to ignore normal processes in doing so. “People say it’s a crisis – I say the government is using a crisis to privatise sections of the healthcare system in a way that is completely wrong,” he said. “A fraction of this money going to public services would have been far better results.”

He accused the government of acting deliberately to carry out ideological aims of privatising the NHS. “It is slipping this through in the name of a pandemic – effectively, to privatise the NHS by stealth,” he said. “I’m quite sure this has not been an accident, I’m quite sure this has been the plan, there has been clarity in this process. The audacity has been amazing.”

"King, who has made the climate crisis one of his key areas of focus, is also concerned about the police and crime bill, which would give police the powers to shut down protests regarded as a nuisance.

He said: “It’s extremely worrying, as we pride ourselves in Britain on having developed a true democracy. Any democracy needs to give voice to dissent. There’s a real danger that we’re going down a pathway that leads away from democracy.”

“The operation to roll out vaccination has been extremely successful, it was driven through entirely by our truly national health service and GP service – just amazing,” he said. “Yet we have persisted with this money for test and trace, given without competition, without due process … I am really worried about democratic processes being ignored.”

He said: “This is a so-called chumocracy, that has been a phrase used, and that is what it looks like I’m afraid: it is a chumocracy.”

Why aren't people more concerned?

Can I ask you GrannyRose. Did you vote for Brexit and for the tories?

My point is that compliance with government covid restrictions has been a fundamental threat to our democracy for the past year. Many on Gransnet do not seem to have recognised this. And the opposition hasn't questioned the principles on which the restrictions have been put in place. They have only tinkered at the edges asking for more money and more of what the government has been giving us. It is only a small group of Tory back benches that have even brought up the possibility that the fundamental principles might actually be wrong.

And you ask how the opposition should do it's job if the government won't let it. Isn't this actually saying that the battle has already been lost and we now live in a dictatorship?

I can remember last time I brokered that idea - it went down like a lead balloon on Gransnet.

I am not saying that the government is without blame for where we are now, far from it. But I am saying that in a democracy a government is only as good as its opposition. And we have been sadly let down by both government and opposition in this time of crisis.

The Tory back benchers are currently occupied with raising funds for and promoting the building of a new royal yacht to be named after Prince Philip. They say it will be a memorial to the Prince and beneficial for the nation because it could be used as a hospital and training ship and also for promoting trade with the rest of the world.

If the RF are to use this new yacht it would have to be fitted out to a very high standard and then re-fitted after it was used for any other purpose.

The promoter (I think his name is Craig Mackinley - MP for South Thanet) was on Jeremy Vine this morning. The more he tried to promote the more stupid he looked - IMHO.

I was reminded of the previous time a new yacht was discussed. The proposers suggested that it could be used for sailing the world selling whisky and marmalade.

Anyway, that's what the back benchers are engaged with.

Blaming the people who voted for the Opposition, who by definition did not want the current government, makes no logical sense whatsoever.

It seems to be what people 'do' these days, though, Doodledog.

Have you noticed that, lately, Remain voters are being blamed for the almighty cockup that is Johnson's Brexit? If Remain supporting MPs hadn't opposed T May's Withdrawal Agreement, the story goes, we'd be absolutely fine now, with no problems in NI at all. Which is a blatantly mendacious bit of rewriting of history...

Likewise, the opposition can be blamed for anything that tory voters don't like their chosen government doing...

I don't understand why the Opposition is to blame for what the government does. It is their job to question, but when questions are met with bare faced lies and obfuscation, what can they do? Blaming the people who voted for the Opposition, who by definition did not want the current government, makes no logical sense whatsoever.

GrannyRose15

What we need is an effective opposition. At the moment we don't have one. The only people who are questioning what the government is doing are Tory back benchers.

And no I am not confused.

That tells me very little.

Are the tory backbenchers questioning the anti-protest powers given to police in the Police and Sentencing Bill?

Are the tory backbenchers objecting to bills giving the government extensive powers to make and amend legislation without parliamentary scrutiny or votes?

Are the tory backbenchers objecting to proposals to bring in voter ID?

Were the tory backbenchers concerned about voting through a bill which proposed breaking international law?

No, they've nodded the lot through. They've voted to remove powers from Parliament that some of our ancestors fought a civil war to establish and which have been vigorously defended up until the present day.

Have the tory backbenchers objected to the fact that the government they support has become completely unaccountable to the people it is supposed to be governing?

No.

These are all factors which contribute to the loss of our democracy. Tory backbenchers are acquiescing to all this without a murmur.

I don't see any splendid fight against the loss of our democracy coming from the tory backbenches.

So what is it they are supposedly fighting for, GrannyRose?

What we need is an effective opposition. At the moment we don't have one. The only people who are questioning what the government is doing are Tory back benchers.

And no I am not confused.

GrannyRose15

MaizieD

Perhaps, GrannyRose, you could explain how the opposition should be doing its job in the face of a PM and government who are completely contemptuous of, and totally disregard, all the usual means of accountability/

*How is the opposition supposed to 'do its job'?*

By questioning the government narrative, by asking for evidence to support the government line, by supporting the only opposition we have- the Tory back benchers.

I think you are confused, GrannyRose. I gather you would like the Opposition to support the backbenchers who object to the covid regulations. Presumably the same backbenchers who nod through every piece of govt. legislation without any scrutiny..

The Opposition has more sense...

MaizieD

Perhaps, GrannyRose, you could explain how the opposition should be doing its job in the face of a PM and government who are completely contemptuous of, and totally disregard, all the usual means of accountability/

*How is the opposition supposed to 'do its job'?*

By questioning the government narrative, by asking for evidence to support the government line, by supporting the only opposition we have- the Tory back benchers.

Quick trawl, Wikipedia. Greenhill set up 2011.

Apologies for misinformation

I don't think the company was involved in government 'financing' then, though. Was it even in existence? 'Advisors' aren't usually running dodgy finance companies, are they?

MaizieD he was definitely around whilst David Cameron was PM, there was a Downing St. letterhead shown on the news (BBC I think) with his name shown as advisor?

David Cameron had been working for Mr.Greensill’s Company as of late.

GrannyGravy13

Mr. Greensill worked as an unpayed advisor to David Cameron whilst he was PM.

This is David Cameron’s mess.

The pertinent question must surely be, who let Greensill 'in'? Cameron's government, May's government or Johnson's government? Because that smacks of something very dodgy.

Unpaid is an interesting word hummm
DC’s mess infiltrating RS’s private mobile number hummmm

Mr. Greensill worked as an unpayed advisor to David Cameron whilst he was PM.

This is David Cameron’s mess.

GrannyGravy13

It was reported on numerous news channels that Mr.Geeensill’s company did not get preferential treatment or extra funding despite David Cameron lobbying Rishi Sunak.

That's as maybe, but there are, according to this blog, questions to be asked about how Greensill ever got to the position it did. It was not a bank, not subject to any regulation and had a distinctly unsafe business model.

Greensill took the funding mechanism known as factoring onto another planet. What factoring does is advance money to a company on the basis of the value of the sales invoices it has issued but which have not been paid, using the fact that the customers are likely to pay as the security for the loans advanced. The model works, even if its a but cumbersome and so relatively expensive.

But what Greensill did was advance loans against invoices not yet issued to customers who had not even placed orders as yet, in at least some cases. In other words it advanced loans against business prospects and there was literally no security in that.

To provide a commonplace equivalent, that’s like applying for a mortgage on the basis of having seen an advert for a job you think you might quite like and that you may apply for even though the chance of getting it is entirely unknown. And Greensill apparently thought that something as absurd as this was acceptable security for lending money.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2021/04/09/why-to-say-about-greensill/

So who got it 'through the door' in the first place? Was it Cameron?

But I do understand ( sarcasm alert) the ministerial code only matters north of the border wherein believe the Tories think it is a hanging offence .

GrannyGravy13

It was reported on numerous news channels that Mr.Geeensill’s company did not get preferential treatment or extra funding despite David Cameron lobbying Rishi Sunak.

Yes I get that but RS’s tweet made it clear he tried to help. The sensible and proper thing to do would have been to pass DC’s requests onto his officials and not replied at all. Or just replied saying that.

It was reported on numerous news channels that Mr.Geeensill’s company did not get preferential treatment or extra funding despite David Cameron lobbying Rishi Sunak.

The only surprising aspect of the Sunak/Cameron affair is that we have found out about it. And I guess that’s happened because one of Sunak’s rivals wants to sink his chances of being the next PM.

Sunak needs to prove that he did not break the ministerial code over the Greensill affair.

It would appear that he did contrary to what he claimed.

However don’t hold your breath for a resignation.

Democratic government and keeping to the rules is not part of this government’s repertoire.