Shocked by the news from Colorado

Urmstongran

I’m not even sure where I stand on gun ownership anymore. If I lived in a rural outback in America, would I feel safer to know I had a rifle in a cupboard? Probably. If bad hombres happened by it would be too long because of geography to call the cops. And there is an element in my thinking that if you come onto my property without an invitation you leave your rights at my gate. Probably wrong but I know I’d be scared.

There’s a difference between gun ownership and gun control. We have gun ownership in this country. Gun control covers such issues as who and under what circumstances can an individual have a gun at home; what type of guns should be allowed; how are they kept safe from others living in the household ; training; physical and mental health checks; general background check including criminal re order; age; enforcement.

Reorder = record

Urmstongran

I’m not even sure where I stand on gun ownership anymore. If I lived in a rural outback in America, would I feel safer to know I had a rifle in a cupboard? Probably. If bad hombres happened by it would be too long because of geography to call the cops. And there is an element in my thinking that if you come onto my property without an invitation you leave your rights at my gate. Probably wrong but I know I’d be scared.

I don't think it's wrong for people in rural areas to hold a gun licence for protection from both human and animal intruders. That applies here in the UK. But they should be illegal within city limits. A gun licence should only be issued when there is a legitimate reason for holding one and there is no reason for firing a gun in a city. There are clubs where people can go and practice firing guns if they enjoy doing that.

Just to add to my previous post, there is also an issue with the types of guns available in the USA. Why would anyone, even in a rural area, need a sub-machine gun? The guns used in Las Vegas were shocking. The very least they could do is limit the types of guns sold, so that only handguns are sold for protection and rifles for protection in rural areas. Sub-machine guns should never be sold to the general public. Only the Police and Armed Forces should have such things.

This is the eighth mass shooting in the USA in the last seven days, apparently. Yes: 8 in one week. And still they don’t curb gun sales

Sadly any President who tried to implement some form of gun control in the US wouldn’t succeed in getting the legislation passed and wouldn’t be President for long.

Why on earth should the police have sub-machine guns, Chestnut?

Are you envisaging a few rapid rounds of bullets as a means of dispersing protestors? Myanmar style?

I don't think it's wrong for people in rural areas to hold a gun licence for protection from both human and animal intruders.

Trying to imagine what British animals would require a burst of gunfire to get them out of your house

As for human intruders, I think you're going down a very dangerous route. Astonishingly, a householder has a duty of care to anyone on their property, whether there lawfully or unlawfully, I think that shooting an intruder, even if 'only' to wound, would infringe that...

Visiting my niece in Barbados some years ago I was shocked to see a gun on the kitchen unit. I told it was because the house was isolated and there was a large cane field at the back thieves could sneak up to the house that way and there was a lot of crime at that time.

The biggest problem for the USA is the fact that the right to 'bear arms' is enshrined in the written Constitution and it is just about impossible to amend it.

It had a reasonable purpose in the 18th century when it was framed. It was a defence against government tyranny (remember that they had just successfully rebelled against the English government, their colonial rulers. Obtaining their victory by force of arms, of course. This is it in full:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Rightly or wrongly, High Court judgements have divorced the need for a militia (a 'citizen army') from the right to bear arms.

But, of course, there was a more pressing practical need for the use of firearms and that was hunting wild animals for food or to protect domestic farm stock.

When Americans talk about hunting they're not talking about getting on a horse and chasing a wild animal with a pack of dogs, they're talking about shooting wild animals. It's a hugely popular 'sport' and I think that that is what perpetuates the massive support for the gun lobby.

OTH I cannot see why in the whole world anyone would need a huge armoury of automatic weaponry. They're not needed for 'hunting' and the US has a standing army. There is no need for a 'militia' (although the 'defence against tyranny' thing takes on a bit of a new significance in light of the attempted Trumpian coup of Jan 6th).

I was told.

I agree with all you said suziewoozie,sadly it will not change.
I dread to think if England had the same gun laws as the US how the Bristol riots would have ended.

What I cannot get my head around is I know a very committed Christian family who live in the US. When I asked then why they had such a large arsenal of guns they said that they go hunting - deer etc. Isn't this a conflict - "Thou shall not kill".
During lockdown they bought their son a gun because house break ins were on the rise. Left me totally flabbergasted!

There was a time in US history that there was no law in territories before they became states. To protect yourself and your property from lawless individuals as well as wild animals having firearms was a necessity. Then on gaining statehood it was already enshrined in the constitution as MaisieD has stated. Is it still a necessity? Arguably not especially in a society claiming to be civilised. There have been so many elements of disorder from left wing and right wing agitators that some may only feel safe if they have a gun. Whilst a small person can stand up to a big person in the middle of a riot it won’t do you much good.

In the UK where our gun laws are different there are still shootings such as in Hungerford and Dunblane. Colorado is shocking but can it be attributed to US gun laws or misfits? Idk

The right to bear arms is constitutional in USA. However this was declared hundred of years ago. The world and life in USA has changed since then. The USA should acknowledge the days of settlers protecting property are long gone. Only when the people of USA acknowledge life has changed will the right to bear arms be eliminated.

It's awful to hear again about people losing their lives like this. Guns to protect property, we manage without them, its senseless. Water cannons would of swiped those Bristol rioters off their feet.

n the UK where our gun laws are different there are still shootings such as in Hungerford and Dunblane. Colorado is shocking but can it be attributed to US gun laws or misfits? Idk

You're well behind the times, Avalon. Our gun laws were tightened in response to those two horrific events.

(Incidentally, a journalist who opposed the tightening of gun law after Dunblane was one B Johnson

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18086052.boris-johnson-compared-gun-crackdown-dunblane-nanny-confiscating-toys/ )

Why on earth should the police have sub-machine guns, Chestnut? Are you envisaging a few rapid rounds of bullets as a means of dispersing protestors? Myanmar style?
Well, rapid fire guns are needed in extreme situations, not under normal conditions or for crowds. That's just silly.

Trying to imagine what British animals would require a burst of gunfire to get them out of your house
People in rural areas use guns for protecting their chickens or sheep from wild animals, not inside their house! Again, that's silly. And in the USA there are many dangerous wild animals which an isolated property may need protecting from.

25 Avalon Hungerford and Dunblane were decades ago. In America there are mass shootings almost daily.
It’s high time they changed the constitution to reflect modern life, it could be done if the American people would back it.

The thing that puzzles non Americans is the fanatical support for guns by the religious right. Why should God want them all to have guns??

Okay at the risk of being insensitive, I am shocked, like everyone else about yet another shooting in America, and puzzled why the gun lovers have such power in a so called democracy. What I don't understand is why do we have to know about it every time one occurs, especially at the moment as we have our own problems to deal with.

This obsession with America is very annoying, The news programmes dedicate at least 15 minutes of air time , per programme everyday, telling us about what's happening in America, Why, do we need to know about every shooting and disaster? after all it is their business and they have to deal with it. Surely journalists and reporters are not short of stories that they have to rely on America for sensational news. The answer is of course not, especially as there are many countries facing bigger challenges and difficulties, which go unreported.

I for one, am sick of hearing about yet another shooting. maybe this deliberate to shock us. I think the opposite is happening; reading some of posting, we are becoming accustomed to it. I think it would be better for us not to see or hear so much of America's problems and concentrate on our own.

This long article shows just how difficult it is to tighten gun control in the USA-

"Democrats swept to victory in Virginia last year after campaigning on stricter gun control laws. Weeks later, the backlash began."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51483541

My grandson lives in Connecticut and recently sent a pic of an aisle in Wal-Mart where there was a stand of guns for sale. All quite usual there it seems. He has only lived in the States for a couple of years so not yet immune to this.

It’s very sad for those Americans effected who are not into guns. For the others, I’m afraid it’s a case of ‘be careful what you wish for’. I am no longer shocked at this sort of gun crime in America. It’s not even unusual enough to merit a news headline.

Chestnut

^Why on earth should the police have sub-machine guns, Chestnut? Are you envisaging a few rapid rounds of bullets as a means of dispersing protestors? Myanmar style?^
Well, rapid fire guns are needed in extreme situations, not under normal conditions or for crowds. That's just silly.

Trying to imagine what British animals would require a burst of gunfire to get them out of your house
People in rural areas use guns for protecting their chickens or sheep from wild animals, not inside their house! Again, that's silly. And in the USA there are many dangerous wild animals which an isolated property may need protecting from.

And what 'extreme situations' do our police have to prepare for with rapid fire guns? I think that in itself is a silly idea.

I don't suppose the people in Myanmar thought their police would open fire on them. But they did. I'd rather not arm police with very lethal weapons.

People in rural areas use guns for protecting their chickens or sheep from wild animals, not inside their house! Again, that's silly.

Oh, got it. You need an armoury of rapid fire weapons to protect livestock...

I have heard that it is common in the USA to give their children a gun for their 7th birthday, and also lessons at the local shooting range.
I'm afraid things will only get worse over there as every time there is a mass shooting gun sales go up. As they say over there, "a bad man with a gun can only be stopped by a good man with a gun." Poor America. Also I have heard that at least 35 people a day die because of shooting - probably a lot of it accidental.