Shocked by the news from Colorado

That is your opinion Chestnut and you are entitled to it. All you have to say is you disagree with me.

But I am entitled to my opinion as well. I am not forcing you or anyone else to have a gun. And I will not use my gun to hurt anyone, unless I fear for my safety.

The fact is that, in the US, just because you don't like my gun, doesn't mean you can take it away.

You don't understand our love of guns in the US. Ok. I don't understand your love of the monarchy. Doesn't make either of us wrong, just different.

Oh and my husband does target practice. As I said earlier.

It would be interesting if we had a US poster with the opposite point of view from freedom's.

And, I'm sure you must be aware, freedom, gun ownership is allowed in the UK and in Europe. It's just that controls are far more strict.

Freedom A gun is only a lethal weapon if the person holding it is using it to kill someone.
Obviously there are many other things which can kill people. But the only purpose of a gun is to kill (unless you are doing target practice). It is designed as a lethal weapon. That is its purpose. It therefore has no place in the modern world except for hunting, protection from dangerous animals in the wild, or for the Police or armed services.
The answer to criminals with guns is not to give everyone else a gun. The more guns in circulation the more people will be shot.

I have answered this question. You just didn't like my answer.

We have guns for personal protection. To hunt. Collectors.

I personally, nor has my husband, created this by allowing millions of guns into circulation. Though I know that isn't what you meant.

We live in the city and my husband hunts. So because we live in the city we don't need to hunt for meat, thus we don't need a gun?

People in the cities are more likely to be victims of crime, thus needing to protect themselves, as shown by my post above.

A gun is only a lethal weapon if the person holding it is using it to kill someone.

A car could be a lethal weapon.
Fertilizer could be a lethal weapon. Used in a bomb.
And yes, even tea could be lethal:

www.cnn.com/2017/03/21/health/poisoned-herbal-tea-death-san-francisco/index.html

Again my thanks to freedom for joining in with gusto and putting the other side of the argument.

Just supposing the US somehow decided to restrict the ownership of firearms. Where would they start? Given that so many people hold guns for all sorts of reasons. I think that in itself would be quite problematic.

(That's to everyone, btw, not specifically to freedom).

Chestnut

Freedom we in the UK really appreciate you posting your views on this. Now.....please, please explain this. Why do you all need guns?
If to defend yourselves then the obvious answer is that you wouldn't need a gun to defend yourself if other people weren't all armed with guns.

I don't think you've answered this question Freedom.
Of course criminals may have guns, but you have created this situation in the first place by having millions of guns in circulation. If criminals have guns then the only answer is for everyone else to carry a gun too?
You say guns are a cultural thing. Don't you think this is a dangerous culture in the 21st century when most people live in cities? Guns are lethal weapons. Tea and scones, and our dear Queen, are not.
As I said before, people in rural areas may want rifles for protection from dangerous animals, and may use them for obtaining meat, but this is very different from city dwellers, who would only need a gun to shoot a human being.

SOrry, I had a typo. This

In regards to gun laws, this means the laws created by the federal government can be challenged by the states. Here are 2 good examples:

Should be this:

In regards to laws, this means the laws created by the federal government can be challenged by the states. Here are 2 good examples:

I am not comparing tea and guns. I am comparing culture and used tea as an example. You can choose to not see that all you want.

Gun control can not "just be done". See in the US we have a constitution. Here are the steps to do that:

Congress may submit a proposed constitutional amendment to the states, if the proposed amendment language is approved by a two-thirds vote of both houses.

Congress must call a convention for proposing amendments upon application of the legislatures of two-thirds of the states (i.e., 34 of 50 states).

Amendments proposed by Congress or convention become valid only when ratified by the legislatures of, or conventions in, three-fourths of the states (i.e., 38 of 50 states).

We also have states rights guaranteed by the 10th Amendment explained here: www.thoughtco.com/states-rights-4582633

While it isn't a direct comparison, I like to explain that each state is similar to a European country and the federal government is like the EU. Again, not a direct comparison.

The EU has certain powers (Federal), but each country has its own powers (State). And different countries (States) can not tell other countries what to do. Wont happen.

So, because of all these protections given to us in our Constitution, we have limits on what the Federal Government can and cant tell us to do.

In regards to gun laws, this means the laws created by the federal government can be challenged by the states. Here are 2 good examples:

Marijuana use. It is against the law to possess or use pot in the US. But 11 states have legalized recreation use. 35 states have allowed medical marijuana use.

Immigration: Federal immigration law trumps state. However several states in the US have become "sanctuary states" in direct opposition to federal law.

Now knowing this, do you still think that gun control is as simple as the president telling us to do it? Nope!

Because of the impossibility of a federal gun ban, each state creates laws aimed at common sense gun control. In most states that means universal background checks, limited magazine capability and red flag laws. All of which Colorado has.

None of those laws helped in the case of the Boulder shooting.

You know what would have helped? If this man had gotten help for his mental illness. His family could have stopped this shooting.

I am happy to go around again on this if you would like? But really it boils down to America is a republic. Our rights are written into the constitution and it takes a lot to take those away.

I am happy to listen to any ideas on how we get our criminals to give up their guns so that we can all give up our guns. You all have a lot of opinions on how we live.

Oh, and here is a good example of why so many Americans want guns for protection. These people were in the "safety" of their own homes.

www.9news.com/video/news/crime/2-shot-during-home-invasion-in-south-denver/73-0fb5f505-ed1c-4cf3-9e70-02b1404d3587

Him too: www.9news.com/article/news/local/denver-shooting-lafayette-street/73-6a13e976-708e-4c94-9aaf-4e6e96036180

There is clearly the world of a difference between a responsible gun collector who keeps his guns and ammo seperately locked away and the number of Americans who walk around armed to the hilt in crowded areas, or buy sub machine guns to terrify and kill.

A gun owner like the husband of freedomfromthepast could be licenced to buy, keep and use guns in the same way in the UK.

Not sure you can compare our tea drinking and scone eating to owning guns.

Not all Americans own guns. Apparently 44% of Americans have a gun/guns in their household.

news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own-guns.aspx

I watch the True Crime shows occasionally and so many murders could have been avoided had a gun not been to hand. It's quite tragic. A young boy was killed at his friend's house when they were playing with a gun they'd found. I am sure we all know numerous scenarios where this has played out.

I'm sure that the majority of gun owners are careful and responsible.

But I'm not sure that it's entirely fair to blame mental health issues for these crimes either.

We did change our gun laws after the tragedy of Dunblane. It can be done. Australia also managed to do the same after the massacre they had in Port Arthur

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/15/it-took-one-massacre-how-australia-made-gun-control-happen-after-port-arthur

Well, criminals don't seem to follow laws. I mean, murder is against the law here and it doesn't stop them. Do you think that criminals are going to give up their guns? Maybe you brits can tell us of your plan to get the criminals here in the US to give up their guns since you seem to have strong opinions on how we live in the US.

I know you all dont understand gun ownership in the US. But asking why we need guns is like me asking you why you need a Monarchy. As an American, the thought of a Monarchy leaves me laughing. We fought against that and won. Why do you drink tea? Why do you eat scones? You can ask this question about any aspect of our different cultures. The answer is always going to be the same. Because we are different cultures.

As I said, my husband is a collector. He enjoys shooting his guns at targets at a gun range safely and he hunts for meat we eat in the fall. If any person came into my house, they wouldn't even know there were guns here. They also wouldn't be able to get to them because of the double lock down.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions on gun ownership. I just believe that one should form that opinion based on facts. People in this thread though the President had the power to strip us of our gun rights. They had no idea about the Brady law or states working to close the loopholes.

Guns are part of our culture. We do believe in sensible gun laws. We do not believe in total gun confiscation. We certainly do not believe in criminals and yet we still have those.

Freedom we in the UK really appreciate you posting your views on this. Now.....please, please explain this. Why do you all need guns?
If to defend yourselves then the obvious answer is that you wouldn't need a gun to defend yourself if other people weren't all armed with guns.

I went back to read the entire thread and I stand by my post. The misinformation on this post was horrid.

Mass shootings are usually caused by mental health issues. THAT is what I was referring to. I am going to assume that suicides are as well.

Other gun violence is a result of inequality in the US. A movement to change that is underway in the US. I assume that you have seen the news since one of you mentioned having 15 minutes a day of hearing about us.

The number of liberal gun owners has sky rocketed in the last year. So no, it isn't just the religious right. In fact, a liberal just shot a man who broke into his house in the middle of the night right here in Denver. So yes, we do fear for our safety in our own homes.

The majority of people in the US do support gun reform. But that doesn't mean they support gun confiscation. The gun reform they support is the laws we have in the books in Colorado. Universal background checks, limiting capacity and Red Flag Laws.

Again, Colorado has every one of those on the books and it didn't stop this mass shooting because it was mental health issue. One phone call is all it would have took to have those guns removed from the home. The family is liable for these deaths.

And suzie: please do not allude that I am the gun lobby because I believe in gun rights. Nor am I the religious right. If you want to talk about lobbyists in the US, I am happy to give it a go with you. It is a corrupt system that needs to go. But it isn't just the NRA pulling the strings and it isn't just the republicans who are bought and paid.

Blinko

suziew yes, by 'understand' I guess I meant empathise.

Ah yes - that makes more sense. Thanks.

suziew yes, by 'understand' I guess I meant empathise.

Blinko

Even given the subsequent posts, I appreciate that freedom took the time to come on here and put a US point of view. We are not likely to understand it, it's completely alien to the European way of thinking.

Nor can we change the way Americans regard guns. However many are killed.

I understand her point of view- it’s a pretty standard one used by the gun lobby. It’s just that it’s simply not evidence based. Of course nothing will change over there - this thread started really about our attitudes to another mass shooting and I can see that I’m not the only one with compassion fatigue. It’s sad but that’s it really isn’t it? I think freedom might have learned something if she’d read the full thread first - it’s hardly a marathon is it?

Even given the subsequent posts, I appreciate that freedom took the time to come on here and put a US point of view. We are not likely to understand it, it's completely alien to the European way of thinking.

Nor can we change the way Americans regard guns. However many are killed.

For those who CBA to follow my link I would stress that the figure of 316 is not deaths by shooting. Just shootings.

All I can think, freedom, is that the USA is a very, very sick society if it has that level of mental health problems.

316 people shot in the US per day

www.bradyunited.org/key-statistics

As you mentioned the Brady Law I assume its statistics are reliable.

Here’s a scholarly article written by Americans and published by a reputable body. It’s focus is mass shootings and mental illness but it includes the wider issues of gun deaths. Basically it demolishes the myth of it being all about mental illness.

psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099

And before you posted, it would have been better to read the thread before lecturing us

freedom a mental health problem not a gun problem? Really - every single gun death in the US is the result of a mental health problem?

First, I have not read all of the posts yet. But I want to clear up some misinformation.

I live in Colorado. Less than an hour away from Boulder. I have lived in Colorado my entire life. I have watched Columbine and the Aurora theater shooting as they unfolded.

In the US we have a constitutional right to bear arms. My husband is a gun collector and has multiple. He would lay down his life to protect that right. He has in fact served his country in the military to defend all of our rights, including the right to say you dont like guns. I don't expect anyone in other countries to understand and honestly I don't care. His guns have never killed anyone, nor will they. They are kept locked in a safe separate from the ammunition, in the basement which is also locked.

This shooter in Boulder was mentally ill. His family knew he was paranoid and delusional at times. His may have been bullied, but his mental health issue was not the result of bullying.

In the US, it is required that people buying guns complete a background check. It is called the Brady law. There are loopholes however, which Colorado has moved to close.

In Colorado you must complete a background check for all gun purchases.

In Colorado, we have a law against high capacity magazines.

In Colorado we have Red Flag Laws which would take guns away from people who are mentally unstable.

His family saw him "playing" with the gun 2 days before the shooting. They took it away from him and put it in his bedroom.

One phone call from his family would have stopped this and saved 10 lives.

What other laws would you all suggest? Murder is illegal and yet...

We don't have a gun problem in the US. We have a mental health problem. IMO we also have a media problem because they use these types of events for ratings.

Also, our president can not just outlaw guns. He is not an emperor. We have checks and balances. Congress makes the laws.

Before anyone starts putting misinformation out there, please know the facts. If you are unfamiliar with the way the US works, please educate yourself.

Ellenvannin..I am think the president of the USA is completely useless
Totally incompetent.

Gun ownership in the US seems to be because people seem frightened someone might try and shoot them, any other human is a possible killer. Is it a throwback from pioneers of the past when they felt threatened by First Nation people? My good friend lives in California and doesn't have a gun, but her neighbours opposite do and showed me their Magnum very proudly. Apparently the bullet would pass through their front door, through the person standing there, and through my friend's front door.