Yes, that's what I meant Maizie. Had the result been to remain, those who wanted to leave would have been be forced to stay in the European Union.
Good Morning Saturday 9th May 2026
Sign up to Gransnet Daily
Our free daily newsletter full of hot threads, competitions and discounts
Subscribe
A twitter thread by Financial Times journalist, Peter Foster.
Some people may find it very sad.
We write a lot about the impact of Brexit on business (rightly) but what about the impact on individuals - and it’s not just about the money! As me and @DanielThomasLDN report her for @FinancialTimes Stay with me... /1
Brexit is about building back barriers - economic but also social and cultural with Europe - and these barriers are built back by increment. Just as gravity impacts trade, so it impacts our social and cultural interactions. The bureaucracy created by Brexit does that...EG... /2
Adrian Bagley, a semi-retired architect who buys and sells model trains from collectors in the EU on the Catawiki auction website...he's been doing it for years. It gives him great pleasure interacting with buyers n sellers from Romania or Austria /3
It's a hobby. It's not life and death, and Mr Bagley excepts ultimately his travails are trivial - but new rules on VAT and the 'handling charges' that parcel companies charge have permanently disadvantaged him with EU contacts /4
I feel like a semi-invisible barrier has come down between me and all those countries I had previously been on the same footing with, when we were all following the same rules. Now I feel I’ve been cut off by duties and so-called ‘handling charges’,” he says. /5
The barriers work both ways. An Italian collector who bought a train from Mr Bagley is cross that he suddenly has to pay VAT and charges on receipt - and Mr Bagley pays 25% effective surcharge on what he buys. (£53.56 in 20% VAT+ £12.50 handling fees on a €250.49 train) /6
This means that EU collectors low-ball his sales (coz they know charges are coming) and he can't compete on a level playing field for with EU bidders for an EU product, since they don't have VAT+ handling. Cry me a river, you say. Well, I do. /7
Similarly with José Martín Quesada who was sent some home baked pastries by his mother in Spain after Christmas which arrived rotten after weeks waiting for health certs etc. “My mother sent the most innocent parcel of home-cooked food and it was declared a biohazard.” /8
Cry me another river. Is Mr Quesada going to starve no? Was his Christmas ruined? Probably not. But his mother's attempt to show him some seasonal consideration was made impossible. Multiply these stories out by the thousands, tens of thousands, and it's a sorry tale I think/9
I've wrote about au pairs being blocked for no really good reason (to much mockery) but that's 50k cultural interactions a year - young Europeans meeting brits, learn English, young English kids meeting EU citizens, hearing languages...realising the world is round, not flat. /10
I've written about the outbound travel industry - young brits going to work in campsites and skiing chalets, running canoeing holidays or guiding musical tours...all that is now made measurably more difficult. Gravity will take it's toll./11
This week's Lords EU committee report on #Brexit and Services tells the story... here @SBIT_UK explains.
As I type UK companies are not signing chalet contracts that would create jobs for UK hires this summer./12
Sorry, image missing.
Again. Not the end of the world, things might get a bit pricier etc. But all just part of the incremental losses caused by building barriers that have material impact - if you have an Irish passport, say, you'll find it easier to get hired. Just a fact. /13
It's no good saying "we're out of the EU, not out of Europe" because a lot of European - the wiring under the plasterwork - is driving by EU rules and regulation. Over time, people will bother less, in both directions. /14
Similarly with the decision to drop Erasmus+. The Lords report worth reading on this, but the Turing scheme is nothing like a replacement and - again - ignores the reality that the EU is a our neighbour. It's another rock in the road. /15
Sorry, image missing
twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1375381463252795395
Yes, that's what I meant Maizie. Had the result been to remain, those who wanted to leave would have been be forced to stay in the European Union.
I think she meant the 'institution' of the EU, Dinahmo, rather than the physical entity.
Smileless2012
And by substituting "France for EU" you have completely miss interpreted and miss represented my post Dinahmo. The EU isn't a country, it's a group of countries.
Yes, but France is part of the EU is it not. I still don't understand why, if the vote had gone the other way, would people be forced to stay in the EU against their wills? Perhaps you could explain that to me since I'm obviously being
stupid this weekend.
Pantglas2
The 90 days in any 180 has always applied Welshwife which is why I stuck rigidly to it when staying at mi Casa over the last ten years.
From next year, anyone wanting to stay longer (while remaining UK resident) will be able to apply for an ETRIAS visa which lasts 3 years.
People have always flown under the radar abroad (and probably here in UK as well) and they’ve had almost five years to get their act together so no sympathy from me on that score.
Pantglas2 ..unfortunately I think you may be wrong on the ETRIAS system ..you will have to apply for one as you say ..but ..it still does not allow you to stay over 90 days, it’s just a travel and track system that everybody will have to use so they can see when you enter and exit the Schengen zone. The only way to stay over the 90 days is to get Residency..I know as I have just had to do it ...even though I will still spend at least 5 months in the U.K. .
Same here Pantglas we know people living under the radar, not paying taxes, using EHIC cards etc. No sympathy from me either there has been plenty of publicity and help available.
Smileless2012
I don't think you bothered to read my post did you Maizie.
Where did I say that the OP was moaning and complaining?
You assume incorrectly, that I have no sympathy for the disruption that leaving the EU has caused.
I was not naive enough to assume there wouldn't be disruption and like every other person who voted, whether it was to leave or remain, exercised my democratic right to do so.
Unlike so many though, I have neither the need nor the desire to keep fuelling the division and bad feeling.
Exactly, well said.????
The beauty ( if that’s the right word)? of GN is that you can revisit Brexit ( should we or shouldn’t we) for 4/5 years, with untold pages of complaining, real Groundhog Day stuff.
I wonder if ardent Remainers will have come to terms with it in ten years time.?
None from me either Pantglas... in fact it’s their own stupid fault.
The 90 days in any 180 has always applied Welshwife which is why I stuck rigidly to it when staying at mi Casa over the last ten years.
From next year, anyone wanting to stay longer (while remaining UK resident) will be able to apply for an ETRIAS visa which lasts 3 years.
People have always flown under the radar abroad (and probably here in UK as well) and they’ve had almost five years to get their act together so no sympathy from me on that score.
If people haven't being taxes that would explain a lot Welshwife. It's incredible to think that people didn't think that leaving the EU would affect them.
Were we living in one of the member states, that would have been the first thing we'd have looked into.
Unfortunately many people did not think it would affect them it seems.
Some people have applied for residency but it has been denied - I gave no idea why but suspect if they have been living there for years and not joined the tax and health systems it could have a bearing on the matter.
Freedom of movement did not mean you could move to another country and not pay your dues. The lack of it now will mean that people wishing to travel in Europe more than 90 days will no longer be able to do so as the 90 days is for the whole Schengen area.
Surely this has been publicised by the Spanish authorities Welshwife as there will have been plenty of Brits living in Spain who've applied for residency.
I have seen over the last couple of days that Brits living in Spain who have not applied for or been given Spanish residency have been required to leave by next week. If they do not do so they will be deported and risk not being allowed back into Spain. The couple they interviewed have lived in Spain for years under the radar and thought they were fine - they voted to leave the EU believing it would not affect them.
And by substituting "France for EU" you have completely miss interpreted and miss represented my post Dinahmo. The EU isn't a country, it's a group of countries.
Smileless2012
"Had the vote gone the other way, there'd have been people forced to remain in the EU "against their wills"
Quote from your post. I've just substituted France for EU
I've no idea why someone would say you've been forced to stay living in France Dinahmo or where you've got that from.
Smileless2012 Please explain why I, as someone who lives in France would have been forced to stay here? First I've heard of it.
I don't think you bothered to read my post did you Maizie.
Where did I say that the OP was moaning and complaining?
You assume incorrectly, that I have no sympathy for the disruption that leaving the EU has caused.
I was not naive enough to assume there wouldn't be disruption and like every other person who voted, whether it was to leave or remain, exercised my democratic right to do so.
Unlike so many though, I have neither the need nor the desire to keep fuelling the division and bad feeling.
The whole leave campaign was a disgrace. It's main focus was on keeping the immigrants out and the vote showed this country up for what we are. It completely ignored the disastrous effect it is was going to have on many peoples lives keeping the immigrants was what mattered.
It's the constant complaining IMO that "perpetuates division and bad feeling".
I don't think you even bothered to read the OP, did you 'Smileless*? Where is the moaning and complaining?
More relevant is, where is your sympathy for the people whose lives have been disrupted by your vote?
Had the vote gone the other way, there'd have been people forced to remain in the EU "against their wills
But there would have been absolutely no effect on their businesses, their hobbies, their exchanges of presents with relatives in other EU countries or on their daily lives. A remain vote wouldn't have caused any difficulties apart from the moaning...
The dismantling of Erasmus is a disgrace, it directly affects students that are less likely to be able to afford to have options open to them due to lack of privilege
It's the constant complaining IMO that "perpetuates division and bad feeling". Had the vote gone the other way, there'd have been people forced to remain in the EU "against their wills".
Well I've heard more than a few people who voted remain say if there'd been another referendum they'd have voted leave NannyJan. People change their minds but regardless of how one voted, it's happened.
Absolutely agree that there wasn’t enough info. I think I pay attention to such things but I hadn’t ever considered the Irish border issue for example. I don’t think any of us, including possibly many in government, had any idea what the real impact of leaving would be. I stand by that it was never meant to end up with us leaving. Cameron did it to shut his right wing party members up. They were completely unprepared, complacent, and left the field wide open for the Leave campaign to road roller its way to success. Several leave voters I know voted as a protest vote regards immigration. They had absolutely no intention of causing what then followed.
You are right MaizieD I have been saying often to my OH that we were not given enough information at the very start Just stark headlines about money to the NHS etc. I have heard a few people say over the past year, 'If I knew that I would have voted to remain'!
To me it makes sense that we are all stronger together. Even my 90 year old Mum thought that.
NannyJan53
It is so upsetting isn't it? Why oh why have so many voted for causing all this extra paperwork and costs? All these barriers now to be overcome. We have definitely regressed, but then I suppose that is what some wanted, back to the 19th Century
But, we do have Blue Passports!so thats ok then.
To be fair, I don't think that people who voted Leave really understood the difficulties that leaving the Single Market would cause. We have got so accustomed to very easy trade within the EU; as easy as trading within the UK itself.
It wasn't even necessary to leave the Single Market & the Customs Union; more rational Leave voters didn't advocate that at all. Leave campaign leaders and influencers casually brushed aside any talk of difficulties, good old Project Fear, and I think that many of them didn't really understand what becoming a third country really involved.
But it would be less infuriating if leave voters had the grace to show a modicum of concern for those who have been adversely (and against their wills) affected by the results of their vote. (A bit of contrition would be lovely, too, though probably asking a bit too much of them.) Completely ignoring other's distress caused by their vote just perpetuates division and bad feeling.
Several things have become difficult for us living in France. I have used the Next international site but because unwanted goods have to be returned to UK this is now complicated and expensive. The lady in the Post Office was quite apologetic about the amount of paperwork required. It's hard to judge at the moment which things are a problem due to the pandemic or Brexit. Of course others face much more serious problems but the small things are frustrating.
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »Get our top conversations, latest advice, fantastic competitions, and more, straight to your inbox. Sign up to our daily newsletter here.