David Lammy on LBC

JaneJudge

This is all getting a bit Cliff Richard

Eh?

Isn't the word ethnicity a convenient - if not totally scientifically supportable - way of describing groups of people who have different physical characteristics and possibly different attitudes, religions and customs?

I get the point that in reality ethnicity is, to some extent, a social construct. Some people - white and non-white - object to completing the ethnicity questions in certain documents, possibly for different reasons. Some white people feel the questions, aside from being intrusive, are unnecessary. Some non-white people also feel they are intrusive and that they reinforce the notion of intrinsic differences between various groups of people.

Of course, we are all human beings and should be treated with equal care and respect. In reality, though, there is enough evidence now to demonstrate that certain groups are discriminated against. If we throw out the ethnicity classification - even if, technically speaking, it may not scientifically accurate, then aren't we also throwing out the one way in which monitoring of access to services can be carried out? In France, for instance, there is no monitoring of ethnicity in relation to access to health, jobs, employment, etc., etc., and several commentators feel that this makes the discriminatory practices faced by certain groups impossible to quantify or address.

Smileless2012

Maybe some people don't like facts. I don't have an issue with facts, but I do have an issue with people being criticised for expressing an opinion because they haven't produced any facts and/or because their opinion is disagreed with.

So do I.

This is all getting a bit Cliff Richard

But if anyone disagrees are they - snowflakes ?

Well done Mr Lammy.

OK, treading carefully here....

Some people, and I'm not sneakily referring to anyone, I really do mean "some people", post with absolute conviction that night is day. That's my opinion and I have every right to it. So when someone comes along and says, no, that's not true, here are some facts about it, some people get angry.

If someone posts that they think a TV program is rubbish, and I don't, c'est la vie. Nothing to argue with there.

Maybe some people don't like facts. I don't have an issue with facts, but I do have an issue with people being criticised for expressing an opinion because they haven't produced any facts and/or because their opinion is disagreed with.

BTW I have not accused anybody of being racist. What I have done is challenge some myths about ancestry and understanding of terms such as ethnicity. That's not the same thing at all unless you choose to believe otherwise.

It's strange how victim syndrome has crept in. Goodness me, next thing somebody will be reporting me, although I don't know why.

lemongrove

Welcome JustMe ? and do continue posting ( including any
Feet in it)?

I'll try and avoid two left feet in it!

lemongrove

Chestnut

In what way did Gagajo suggest you're racist? You appear to be jumping to conclusions.
I didn't say that. But it seems to be implied that anyone who 'dares to have a contrary view about this issue' might be. I have sympathy for all the grans who might have a different viewpoint, and would like to participate, but daren't. There's lots of finger wagging going on here, and a lack of understanding for anyone who is proud of their heritage (whatever it might be). It is not your right to criticise people who feel proud of their heritage.

I agree 100% Chestnut
Unfortunately a tiny minority of GN posters have given themselves finger wagging status about anything to do with race ( and a few other subjects too)?
It’s not only ridiculous ( they don’t know any more about a given subject than any of us) but usually by sheer number of posts manage to bludgeon into silence, anyone who dares to challenge their nonsense.

No, some people just use facts. It appears some people don't like them.

No finger wagging from me, just facts.

I so agree eazybee and lemongrove

Welcome JustMe ? and do continue posting ( including any
Feet in it)?

Chestnut

^In what way did Gagajo suggest you're racist? You appear to be jumping to conclusions.^
I didn't say that. But it seems to be implied that anyone who 'dares to have a contrary view about this issue' might be. I have sympathy for all the grans who might have a different viewpoint, and would like to participate, but daren't. There's lots of finger wagging going on here, and a lack of understanding for anyone who is proud of their heritage (whatever it might be). It is not your right to criticise people who feel proud of their heritage.

I agree 100% Chestnut
Unfortunately a tiny minority of GN posters have given themselves finger wagging status about anything to do with race ( and a few other subjects too)?
It’s not only ridiculous ( they don’t know any more about a given subject than any of us) but usually by sheer number of posts manage to bludgeon into silence, anyone who dares to challenge their nonsense.

A few people may be sacred of posting but many read the provocatively rude posts and simply can't be bothered to respond.

I'm new here (I registered about 7 years ago, but didn't post and have now resuscitated my profile!)

I hope this isn't a scary place to post because I will flit about posting here and there and - as yet - don't 'know' people, recognise names and I'm not aware of how it all works!
I'm just finding my way round, so I hope I don't put my foot in it!
On the other hand, I'm certainly not backwards in coming forwards

On the subject of David Lammy... I think he is a top bloke, I don't always agree with every single thing he says, but he is eloquent and I want to listen to him. That's all you can ask for in a politician really, isn't it..

there are very many I can't bear to listen to!

Bit snowflakie (sp?) imo

The idea that some are scared to post is interesting. I personally have had lots of flak about many things that I post but I'm prepared to fight my corner. I'm certainly not scared.

My personal view - some people post things that start a discussion, and then don't like being told they are mistaken, or that somebody else disagrees with their view. Especially if you come back with facts

I think one of the best things about a forum full of women with all different experiences is the grouped knowledge to learn from one another, not to be too scared to post. If you are pulled up on something that is offensive, learn from it. If you upset someone, apologise and move on. As women we most probably have more shared experience than that divides us anyway. But maybe I am too optimistic

varian

chestnut claims "so many grans are scared to post". Is there a secret whatsapp group for fearful gransnetters?

Well if they’re scared, they should contact HQ with the allegations with names of scarey posters and the relevant posts. However, I’m not sure that challenging/correcting misinformation counts as being reportable although I accept it has to be done politely. However, it’s sometimes hard not to sound frustrated when the correct information is available at the click or two of a button

chestnut claims "so many grans are scared to post". Is there a secret whatsapp group for fearful gransnetters?

How do you know that "so many grans are scared to post"?

Loislovesstewie

I will cheekily say it was built in the Norman style!

Not cheeky at all! Don't forget that Normans were Vikings. Just goes to show how Europe was (and hopefully still will be) a melting pot of ideas.

Well, he has taken his pick, Chestnut and he has chosen 'English'.

I really don't understand why you are being so dogmatic about this.

Whatever you have 'explained' doesn't give you any authority to tell other people how they should describe themselves.
Presumably DL's passport says his nationality is British
He lives in England so his cultural heritage is English
His ethnic DNA is Afro Caribbean and Scottish
Take your pick!
He can describe himself by any of those things and I am not telling him anything.
People take snippets from comments and then make a sweeping statement or nasty criticism based on one thing. No wonder so many grans are scared to post.