The Conservatives have claimed Good Friday

It's not easy suziewoozie and all I can do is try and when I fail, hope to do better next time.

Smileless2012

Not as rude as the post that preceded it Dianahmo "preaching", "a Gransnet missionary", "snake oil salesman".

I'm more than happy to have an adult conversation but will not rise to posts that are deliberately goading. I don't have a problem with being disagreed with either, but someone clearly does.

what equality and diversity rules are you referring too jaylucy?

Matthew 5:39

Not as rude as the post that preceded it Dianahmo "preaching", "a Gransnet missionary", "snake oil salesman".

I'm more than happy to have an adult conversation but will not rise to posts that are deliberately goading. I don't have a problem with being disagreed with either, but someone clearly does.

what equality and diversity rules are you referring too jaylucy?

Doesn't actually follow their equality and diversity rules does it?

Smileless2012

yawn.

Sorry, but I think your last post is just rude. You believe you're right. Some of us disagree. Perhaps we should leave it at that.

I think that is what I said Madgran.

Can't say that I have interpreted Smileless's posts in the way that you seem have Pippa. I suppose it comes down to interpretation of what one reads really, whether a Gransnet post or a religious writing.

Whatever ...each to their own.

yawn.

There are no facts to be "gathered over time" Smileless. One fact exists. A man Jesus lived at about the right time. It seems you are now saying that you are building your faith around a man-made construction of the meanings of the writings in the New Testament - which is fine if that is what you chose to do.

You have preached your religion at me. I do not agree with your interpretation of Jesus - my interpretation does not make me right or wrong. I do believe you have every right to hold that view - your interpretation does not make you right or wrong; they are both just views.

But it appears that, like many religions of today, you believe only you, and your version is "the right one" and you will go on, rather like a Gransnet Missionary until I give in and accept what you say or you produce some snake oil salesman verbal trick which makes you look right and me wrong.

Heaven save us from the person who loudly declares their faith as the only right version and then marks others out as wrong. We have all seen where that leads.

That made me laugh too Galaxy.

What I'm trying to say is that the bible can teach us about God and Jesus but it doesn't for me anyway, prove His existence and isn't the corner stone of my faith.

I am laughing that are you clean is my top priority, I may have lowered the standard of debate.

But you are talking about the first few hours if that of a relationship, after that it is based on facts, after the first date, are they clean, do you fancy them, are you able to talk to them, all facts.

Yes I agree Galaxy with all relationships facts are gathered over time but when the relationship begins, there are no facts are there.

If someone knows before starting a relationship that the other person is likely to hit them for example, they wouldn't enter into the relationship to begin with, the same would go for cheating too.

Actually I would disagree with that opinion of relationships. Of course facts help you establish relationships, does the person you are in a relationship hit you, do they cheat, do they clean the toilet after themselves, etc etc. You need those facts to decide if you want to marry etc.

Apart from this which is telling you so Pippa I am not responding to any of your posts and was given the distinct impression earlier, that you would not be responding to mine, as you had better things to do with your time.

Interesting you say only faith can give you a personal relationship with God, Smileless. Let's assume that is true. Why then does it have to be a relationship on Smileless's terms; your view of what the bible means? A "personal" relationship assumes each one will be different, surely.

So when you say what you think parts of the bible mean that is not faith. It is religion.

As for Brexit, we have been told so often "you must believe what I believe, in the way that I believe it" that it screams religiosity.

Faith is one's personal relationship with God Dinahmo, and like all relationships it builds and is strengthened over time. There is no comparison to Brexit.

What facts are available when you meet someone for the first time and begin a relationship with them? None. What facts are available for you to decide that someone you've met is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with and perhaps start a family? None.

Relationships are built on getting to know someone and responding too and reacting on your feelings and emotions. So it is with faith.

You can be "brought up in the Christian faith" but that doesn't give you a personal relationship with God. Only faith can do that.

You appear to have miss understood OnwardandUpward's post. She did not say she feels sorry for anyone who doesn't have faith, but feels sorry for anyone who likens someone's faith for agreeing with and voting for Brexit.

OnwardandUpward

Faith isn't like Brexit (thankfully!) At least, not to me or people I know who have faith.

I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who thinks it is......... [hmmm]

People of faith put their trust in things that can neither be seen, proved, explained or factually described. I'm not sure how "belief in Brexit" differs.

Sorry Dinahmo, as always my typing takes so long, others have posted.

A majority on this thread and most scholars accept, as a fact, that a man, whose name has been interpreted as "Jesus" existed. There is no physical or archaeological evidence for Jesus; all existing sources are documentary. All remaining sources that mention Jesus were written after his death. All beliefs or faiths based on and around these sources do not have to be accepted by anyone who chooses not to, as facts. Nor do they have to believe those whose beliefs or faiths that say they are facts, as the only agreed and substantiated fact is that a man called Jesus existed.

But no one, on this thread, has ever said you may not believe in anything from Brexit to little green men if you want to.

Smileless2012 you say that there are no facts that can prove or disprove the source of peoples' faith yet you have been debating on here quoting the scriptures and your interpretation.

Which is why OnwardandUpward I likened the religious faith that people have to the faith that Brexiteers had. They too had no facts, or very few, to support their arguments. I heard so many people, when presented with the arguments against Brexit, were unable to respond save to say they believed....

Like me, many others on here were brought up in the Christian faith. For whatever reason we no longer hold those beliefs. You may feel sorry for us if you wish but I think most of us have some other belief, whether atheism, agnosticism or something else.

Faith isn't like Brexit (thankfully!) At least, not to me or people I know who have faith.

I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who thinks it is......... [hmmm]

When it comes to faith Dinahmo for those who do believe it is true. There are no 'facts' that can either prove or disprove where someone's faith comes from, and I can assure you it is nothing at all like Brexit.

Whenever I watch an archaeological programme I end up shouting (not too loudly) at the tv because the "experts" always come up with a reason why a structure had been built when there is often absolutely no proof. If they said that it's possible or probable I wouldn't mind. But they don't.

Funnily enough, I watched an English programme about some caves in France where the expert actually said that they had no idea of the reasons for the wall paintings. But, I digress. Reading some of the posts on here about faith makes me want to shout loudly because the posters aren't allowing anybody else's interpretation of the Bible or other documents. They believe, therefore it must be true. A bit like Brexit. All those people who ignored facts when presented because they believed that it would all be OK.

It may well run until Christmas lemongrove or there could be another one I suppose if someone thinks that Conservatives claim that too.

As you say regarding Easter or any Christian festival come to that "we needn't worry that others don't".