The Conservatives have claimed Good Friday

MaizieD

^As for having the last word - I would love for my comments to appear underneath those I am responding to. It is the Gransnet setup that makes them appear at the end.^

As you can do nothing about the Gnet set up you have to do a workaround.
Which is either to use the 'quote' function, which reproduces the whole of the post you are replying to, as well as your answer, or, do what I've done here; copy the pertinent passage from the post you're replying to, paste it at the the top of your answer and format it to distinguish it from your actual answer. Then everyone knows what you're talking about.

I know that Maisie and I do that sometimes. What I don't understnad is how I can avoid accusations of trying to have the last word when all I am doing is trying to have my say.

Probably not worth bothering about really but I did think the accusation unfair at the time.

Oh I see. No that wouldnt help. In fact would add a layer of difficulty.

Ah, professional outsiders Galaxy yes, that’s quite different, I was thinking of ( for anything to do with Church activities)
Volunteers.

Sorry lemongrove but I dont agree. Speaking out for children is incredibly difficult particularly against a person in power. It is very difficult to spot something that is 'off' and in my experience even more difficult to make the correct decisions about concerns. Outsiders views such as Ofsted in schools, care homes etc add a layer of safeguarding for children.

Or...GN could supply us with an edit function to the quote
Then just the relevant part of the quote could be used.Other forums have this.At the moment GrannyRose the easiest thing is to click on quote and reproduce the whole comment that you want to reply to.

An ‘outsider’s’ view wouldn’t do anything useful ( around children in a church or other setting.) Police checks are already used for anything that involves under 18’s.
If somebody had a clean police record they could still do something for ‘the first time’ of course, but there are enough people around ( in these settings) to notice anything that seems at all ‘off’. Even with many checks and balances in place, some will always slip through the net, but today’s children are far more aware and confident enough to speak up ( unless we are talking about very young children.)

As for having the last word - I would love for my comments to appear underneath those I am responding to. It is the Gransnet setup that makes them appear at the end.

As you can do nothing about the Gnet set up you have to do a workaround.
Which is either to use the 'quote' function, which reproduces the whole of the post you are replying to, as well as your answer, or, do what I've done here; copy the pertinent passage from the post you're replying to, paste it at the the top of your answer and format it to distinguish it from your actual answer. Then everyone knows what you're talking about.

PippaZ

Unfortunately, there is very little one can say these days without upsetting someone. If that were anyone's criteria for commenting on Gransnet then we wouldn't have many conversations would we.

As for having the last word - I would love for my comments to appear underneath those I am responding to. It is the Gransnet setup that makes them appear at the end.

It's good of course that lessons are learned but tragic that a case like the one that involved Huntley have to happen, in order to bring to light that the procedures already in place are woefully inadequate.

PippaZ Yes an outsiders view on a regular basis would be a good thing. The courses run through my church were offered
online and run by two designated safe-guarding professionals,
and yes certainly an abuser could apply for the course as I did not have to give much detail.
The certificates could be used to show to possible new job
employers however to even be working in that area amongst
vulnerable children an employer would require references,
a full police clearance check which would detail a lot. It is very unlikely that an abuser would find their way in to a school or church setting etc;
Do you remember some years ago that man Ian Huntley?
he even managed to get a caretakers job in a school. I think he even had one conviction on his record.
These days I think they have tightened up full police checks to make sure these kind of people do not get jobs around children.

I still think you need an outsider view on a regular basis. Don't you think abusers can take and pass the course too? It's good that churches, etc., have taken the past on board but a balance cannot do any harm.

If not for our involvement we'd have been unaware of the procedures that are now in place and all the work that is being done behind the scenes 3nanny.

Too late of course for the victims of the past but hopefully enough to prevent any victims in the future.

My safe guarding certificates are in a file on my computer although I can print them off if I want to. I am not on any committee or anything but just like to have the experience of having the course work.
I get a bit angry sometimes when people on certain threads bring up the subject of the historical abuse within the church (often they will point to the Catholic church) and to the priests. It happened so their is no argument there but for the last two years there has been much done behind the scenes
within the church to make amends and apologize for the behaviour of those involved and to try to somehow make sure as many victims of that abuse can talk to people within the church to know they will be believed and listened to as often in the past they were not.

For all those victims there is still a long way to go.

Myself and Mr. S. had to obtain safe guarding certification when we became members of our PCC 3nanny. Never having been on a PCC before, we didn't know it was a requirement and we have also been made aware at how much work is going on 'behind the scenes' to do as much as possible to keep everyone safe.

I agree that awareness is the key. Knowing what to look out for, what the 'give away' signs can be, rather than being suspicious.

There are specially designated safeguarders in my church and also the other churches attached to our ministry.
It is also possible to do an on-line course through the church on everything covering abuse. I have done it myself and have done level 1 2 and three. It is something useful to have as experience. It is the same course that S.S. use.
All schools must by law have designated head of Pastoral
Care and they will have at least two trained people in Child Abuse and if you go on school websites you can see who they are. It may come under Welfare but there is more to it than that.

I try not to be suspicious of people but often I try to read a situation (for want of a better way of explaining things) and though I know many families are good and happy sometimes little clues give something away. I do not spend my time always thinking people are abusers it is just good to have some awareness.

They are also organisations where many people want to do what they see is a "good" thing. Generally we expect others to behave as we do. These people only have to fit in with our outward idea of "good people". We, especially those who have had fairly kind lives, are not programmed to be suspicious of others to the extent that would be needed. Just think how many times neighbours say "but they/he/she seemed so ordinary". That's why people coming in from outside, prepared to be suspicious, can help.

Hiding in plain sight comes to mind. You see someone in a position of trust and responsibility and that's what you see; what you expect to see and not necessarily what's there.

I remember when our boys were young, having the conversation about not talking too or going with strangers, trying to press home the message without frightening them.

Our youngest piped up with 'you mean like the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' so I explained that yes, in a way only they don't look like the child catcher, they look like every one else.

They do Annie but we have the resources within support safeguarding - probably not enough but they are there. Why are we not using this to go into organisations such as Scouts/Guides, churches/sects and clubs such as sports clubs. These are all places were there have been issues in the past, and it looks as if it could do with strengthening in schools too.

As said in the link from suziewoozie sadly some abused become abusers

"Ofsted" not costed

It does seem that many hypocrites - those that do the exact opposite of their proclaimed intentions - find a place for that hypocrisy within organised religions and organised sects. I wonder if the law is used properly and whether we should be looking at something like an "costed" for these groups. It certainly appears that they cannot police themselves.

Abuse within families is a very big problem and often hidden. My daughter was a child protective worker for a while and she could tell you it cuts across all levels of society, rich and poor. I hate to think of some of these children during lockdown, unable to get any freedom from their abusers. A bit of a digression from the original post I know.

Again, I am speaking of a father, I did love my father very much and perhaps this clouds the discussion for me, i am not playing down abuse by others, several boys abused in the North Wales child abuse scandal took their lives some years later. If you want to read of a cover up, read of that , it was horrific .

This is part of the interim report of the Child Sex Inquiry which desks with long term effects of child sex abuse.

www.iicsa.org.uk/publications/inquiry/interim/nature-effects-child-sexual-abuse/effects-child-sexual-abuse

Being abused by a trusted adult seems to mean in most cases an inability or real difficulty in forming relationships afterwards as trust has been destroyed. I don’t know enough to ‘rank’ abuse in terms of which is worse and I guess there are many other factors that play a part. I don’t think it’s possible to know which is worse or appropriate to try and discuss that. What matters is that society and the various institutions within it do their very best to safeguard children and put their welfare before the reputation of the institution or the the abusers. There’s a long way to go in protecting our children imo

I totally agree Annie as it would be if the abuser were any family member but yes, your own father would be worse.