The Conservatives have claimed Good Friday

The victim is surely damaged but I do think being abused by a
parent must leave different scars, everyone you know has a father, you see friends with their fathers, you have brothers , sisters who were not harmed , what did I do wrong .

So I will disagree with all on this, and I do know someone who was abused in the North Wales abuse scandal.

It's a life sentence. The memory never goes away and regardless of how well you do and how happy your life is, it's a cloud on the horizon that never totally goes away.

Child abuse leaves a lasting impression on the survivors wherever it happens, home or institution. It does seem it is worse in organisations that are supposedly “caring” but I guess the lifelong damage is the same. It is a problem in society.

That's terribly sad Annie, poor girl. I wonder what happened to her.

I had a friend, a priest, ran the youth club my daughters were members of, some years after he moved to another parish he was arrested for abuse of young boys, I was shocked..

A girl i was in school with, she was so disliked, angry, spiteful, really bad tempered. After we had left school, the news broke,
the priest in our village was out for a walk , heard the girl shouting and swearing, he went into the house, she was being sexually abused by her father, had been so from a small child, she was too ashamed to tell anyone, her father threw himself under a train when on the run.

I was so distressed , all that spiteful behaviour ,she was so disliked, how she was suffering all those years.

Smileless2012

Not to mention the lip service that is given to the victims and the failure to take action against the accused.

Yes - the story after story of priests ( and others) moved from parish to parish, job to job, when the leaders knew exactly what was going on. Iirc, one was holed up for protection in the Vatican and another CofE priest housed by Prince Charles.

I agree.

Smileless2012

That's true Annie most abuse is carried out in the home. I take your point that it's all the same. I suppose for me anyway, when the abuser is someone who talks about the love of God for example it's harder to deal with.

Yes, an interesting and controversial topic I agree Greeneyedgirl

Is it really all the same? For the abused child/young person yes, but the societal implications? No. As you say, harder to deal with and not just for believers.

Not to mention the lip service that is given to the victims and the failure to take action against the accused.

Anyone who has followed the child abuse enquiry must surely be shocked by the endless revelations and how recent some of them are.

That's true Annie most abuse is carried out in the home. I take your point that it's all the same. I suppose for me anyway, when the abuser is someone who talks about the love of God for example it's harder to deal with.

Yes, an interesting and controversial topic I agree Greeneyedgirl

Anniebach

To say it’s more shocking in the church is saying it’s less of a shock in schools, youth clubs, Scouts , it’s all the same

Yet there is something which is so dark, most abuse is carried out in the home

I think there are degrees of ‘shockingness’ .This isn’t saying anything about the effect on the abused children but the churches have a particular role in society in terms of moral leadership and trust and breaching that as they did was and is unforgivable. That’s why imo it’s so dangerous to think religions and religious followers should not be criticised. We should have a healthy scepticism of all institutions in society and the more powerful they are, the more sceptical we should be. And to go back to my OP it’s a jolly good reason why we don’t want alliances between religions and political parties. Two very powerful groups in society - separation essential. The damage done to generations of females in Ireland is a chilling example of what happens when the state and the church are intertwined. It would help the Cof E to be disestablished imo

I’m fully aware of where most abuse is carried out and that’s not what I was referring to. The failures of the churches in protecting children and young people within their structures is not lessened by the amount of abuse within the family.

Ah ha! Free will. Now that IS an interesting (and controversial) topic. Look at what Sam Harris neuroscientist has to say on that, YouTube.

To say it’s more shocking in the church is saying it’s less of a shock in schools, youth clubs, Scouts , it’s all the same

Yet there is something which is so dark, most abuse is carried out in the home

It is free will Whitewavemark. Mankind chooses to do the evil that is done, God doesn't make us.

If there were no free will everyone would believe in Him wouldn't they, as they'd have no other choice, no freedom to do otherwise.

I agree suziewoozie it is more shocking when members of any religious organisation abuse children and those organisations seek to not just cover it up, but in many cases moved the perpetrator on to carry on with their abusive behaviour else where.

It must be terrible for parents who'd been allowing their children to attend clubs etc where they believed they would be safe, only to discover that the very people who were supposed to be looking after them and protecting them, were doing the exact opposite.

Christianity has come up with a good wheeze to explain away the evil that is done both in its name and not.

Free Will

I am not sure how the other big religions explain it away.

Dinahmo

I'd like to know when all religious people became good and kind. The behaviour of the Catholic Church during the previous century were appalling and we probably all know about the cruelty enacted by various religions throughout history. It's one of the reasons why I, when I became a young adult, stopped being a church goer and lost whatever belief I had. That and the wars, atrocities and devastation of the planet which God, or any other Supreme Being allows to continue.

That's the problem with organised religion imo. It tends to be just as tribal as politics, if not worse.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Dinahmo

I'd like to know when all religious people became good and kind. The behaviour of the Catholic Church during the previous century were appalling and we probably all know about the cruelty enacted by various religions throughout history. It's one of the reasons why I, when I became a young adult, stopped being a church goer and lost whatever belief I had. That and the wars, atrocities and devastation of the planet which God, or any other Supreme Being allows to continue.

Just look at the Child Abuse Enquiry to see the evil of Christian churches ( not just RC although they were worse imo) through recent decades. Yes the actions of the abusers themselves but even more chilling the orchestrated cover up and protection of the abusers. Still issues at Ampleforth. I know it’s not just churches - youth clubs, sports clubs, children’s homes - wherever there are children but somehow it is so much more shocking when it’s the church. I wish I felt it was sorted now but I really don’t.

I agree, the behaviour of some members of the Catholic Church and indeed the members of other religions throughout history has been appalling Dinahmo. History is full of examples of the atrocities in the name of religion.

Interesting interpretation Pippa considering several posters, apart from me and including you have had posts deleted.

I'd like to know when all religious people became good and kind. The behaviour of the Catholic Church during the previous century were appalling and we probably all know about the cruelty enacted by various religions throughout history. It's one of the reasons why I, when I became a young adult, stopped being a church goer and lost whatever belief I had. That and the wars, atrocities and devastation of the planet which God, or any other Supreme Being allows to continue.

I do think that those with a very deep faith often think they are being picked upon and I'll give you an example.

When I lived in Suffolk a group of us used to meet once a month for dinner (different hostess each time) Everybody would contribute something to eat and/or drink. We used to have interesting discussions on a wide range of things. Most of us (not me) were occasional church goers (C of E) . One of us was a Baptist and always pontificating and bringing religion into the subject and invariably we would disagree with her.

One evening she commented that she was being piled on because of her religion, which to a certain extent was true. When I was young and a church goer I was taught the 10 Commandments, one of which was "though shalt not commit adultery". We all knew that she was having an affair with a married man and had been doing so for a number of years.

That was why we argued with her because we thought she was two faced. None of us ever criticized her directly about her affair -it was her business.

Her ex husband (also a Baptist) once told a friend and I how we were behaving like Christians because we were volunteers for Save The Children. The implication being that non believers didn't do such things.

Callistemon

^Of course there are some nasty people amongst them just as there are some nasty people amongst non Christians.^

nanna8 and often wicked people use Christianity as a front to hide their wickedness.

I'm surprised, too, at the notion that Christians generally are not left of centre politically.

I know plenty of left of centre Christians - I just don’t see many on GN. Maybe it’s the threads they post on? Or maybe it’s something to do with who professes their Christianity openly?

Dinahmo

Anniebach

OnwardandUpward it is so sad and I am sorry you didn’t know GransNet as it use to be . There are still some really nice posters but far from the number there use to be. You will find which threads to avoid if you feel bullied or upset. Hope you stay and find how friendly some posters are .

I've found that the GNers who I have had disagreements with on N & P are usually thoughtful and kind on the other threads.

If people are interested in politics they are likely to be forceful and if a poster states something that others believe to be untrue, they will sometimes be piled on. If I was to write what i actually thought of BJ, I would expect to be shouted down by all his supporters, although I suspect that a few others on here would come to my defence.

Well said. I love this trashing of GN and the sighing for the good old days. All these really really horrible posters rushing round bullying and upsetting others by ( how dare they?) challenging, criticising , posting facts and information. ??