A year of Starmer What do you think?

The Labour movement has always been aspirational. What about Blair and 'Education, Education, Education'?

Hahaha!
Nothing at all to do with massaging the unemployment figures under Labour then? “Labours Not Working’. Remember that slogan MaizieD? I do.

Blair wanted as many students in uni as possible. Taking an ‘ology’ that often was not vocational, led nowhere and to nothing and kept the students off the unemployment figures. So many kids taking a medja studies course, believing they’d be working for the BBC in some capacity, only to end up working in a supermarket or a nail bar ...

Because many ‘ordinary prople’ have principles , morals and
self respect

What worries me is that Johnson is showing that the thing to do is not to bother about working or contributing to society, but to fiddle your tax, get a leg up from your mates, swindle someone else into paying for your nanny or your Caribbean holiday, and taking your mistress on state-sponsored jollies.

Why should 'ordinary people' feel the need to slog away doing their best when the leader of the country is behaving like this?

MaizieD

^Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.^

That's ridiculous. The Labour movement has always been aspirational. What about Blair and 'Education, Education, Education'? Labour might have rejected Blair, but they haven't rejected principles like that.

Absolutely. The whole basis of bettering yourself is to start with a good education.

Boz

Apparently, the Tories are to build, build, build. Thatcher knew that if you give someone the right to buy you have a Tory voter. The Tories keep winning because they are seem to be for the aspirational; Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.

Aren’t they planning to build on flood plains etc?

MaizieD

^Some of us still do want a more left leaning Government, because we want to see an end to foodbanks and "fire and rehire" and other unfair employment practises. We want a leader of the Labour party to want a more equal society and not have to rely on a young footballer to point out what would be a decent thing to do.^

The ridiculous thing is that I think that Starmer would want this too. The problem is how to convince people that he's not the red tory depicted by the Corbynites, and to set out a strategy to achieve it.

This blog is really interesting

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/labour-and-post-brexit-politics.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrznWQ+%28The+Brexit+Blog%29

I think he would too and it has to be good for all of us to try not to construct an underclass.

All West Yorkshire Councils remained Labour and we now have a Labour Mayor in Tracy Brabin in West Yorkshire. With the four Labour Mayors in the north life could get interesting.

Thatcher knew that if you give someone the right to buy you have a Tory voter.
Arguably that sums up the selfishness and short-sightedness of a lot of voters. The sale of council houses, (which had been built with money from taxpayers) made a quick buck for a few people and left generations after them vulnerably housed or unable to afford to buy. There is no reason why they should not have been sold at market value and the money put back into building new ones. It was probably the most cynical of appeals to greed in the history of politics.

Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.

That's ridiculous. The Labour movement has always been aspirational. What about Blair and 'Education, Education, Education'? Labour might have rejected Blair, but they haven't rejected principles like that.

Our Local District Council has 82 Liberal Democrats, 14 Conservatives, 5 Independents and 1 Green Councillor.

What Labour Party???

The ridiculous thing is that I think that Starmer would want this too. The problem is how to convince people that he's not the red tory depicted by the Corbynites, and to set out a strategy to achieve it.
He could start by appointing a few left wingers to his cabinet, reinstating the investigation into the shenanigans in the 2017 election, oh and trying to actually encourage MPs to vote for human rights, not imposing the whip so they can't.

Apparently, the Tories are to build, build, build. Thatcher knew that if you give someone the right to buy you have a Tory voter. The Tories keep winning because they are seem to be for the aspirational; Labour has no appeal for people who want to get on.

Disappointed.

I also heard those people on the radio from Batley. I suppose with those sort of views they are more likely to support the Conservatives and perhaps that is where they will stay.

Some of us still do want a more left leaning Government, because we want to see an end to foodbanks and "fire and rehire" and other unfair employment practises. We want a leader of the Labour party to want a more equal society and not have to rely on a young footballer to point out what would be a decent thing to do.

The ridiculous thing is that I think that Starmer would want this too. The problem is how to convince people that he's not the red tory depicted by the Corbynites, and to set out a strategy to achieve it.

This blog is really interesting

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/labour-and-post-brexit-politics.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrznWQ+%28The+Brexit+Blog%29

foxie the upcoming Batley & Spen by-election will be telling.

foxie48

I'm sure this comment will annoy a lot of people but I can't help thinking that this thread typifies what is going wrong with the Labour party. Lots of discussion about whether Starmer is any good and who might be better (or not), disagreement about where the party should lean, further right and centralist or cling to Corbynism/Momentum, complaints about the Tories but no-one seems to consider why people who could be counted on to support labour, no longer do. You are all solid labour voters, you'll vote labour even if the sky fell in but clearly ATM there are not enough of you to win an election and gain power. Listening to the radio I've heard some ex labour supporters say why they changed to Conservative and tbh it didn't make comfortable listening, in deed some things I heard made me squirm. Brexit, immigration and one woman who said she felt labour was more interested in ethnic minorities than people like her. Not nice tbh but how does the LP deal with this? Batley and Spen looks like a lost cause unless they do!

Actually I have voted for parties other than the Labour Party foxie48. With many others I voted Lib Dem after Tony Blair moved Labour further to the right than they were and crowned it all by taking us into an ilegal war. So it doesn't take the sky falling in to change me. And if Starmer has his way I may change again. It will possibly have to be Green this time.

Brexit is a done deal and I think it would help matters if the present leadership actually made much more effort to show they agree with this decision and moved the debate on to how to create trade deals and prosperity.

A significant number of people did actually like Corbyn’s centre-left policies. They are still popular in quite a few places, for example in Liverpool, Preston, Manchester, Oxford, Sandwell.

This is an interesting comparison, it doesn’t exactly show that centre-right views are particularly popular (also the ones that lost elections for Brown and Milliband)

Corbyn’s first 13 months:
Lost 18 councillors
Lost 0 councils
Defeated Cameron in locals - Labour 31% Tories 30%
Held Oldham
Held Sheffield Brightside & Hillsborough
Held Ogmore
Held Batley & Spen

Starmer’s first 13 months:
Lost 322 councillors
Lost 8 councils
Lost Hartlepool

Starmer needs to actually listen to real people, not just small focus groups. With covid restrictions easing then hopefully he can start to do that. He needs to ditch people like Mandelson who is toxic, and stop giving into demands from the likes of the BoD who are not Labour supporters and never will be.

I agree with you foxie, the only exception being that I would never just vote for a party purely out of loyalty. I would always do what I thought was best for the country and it’s people even if that meant voting Conservative (which I’ve never done).

I'm sure this comment will annoy a lot of people but I can't help thinking that this thread typifies what is going wrong with the Labour party. Lots of discussion about whether Starmer is any good and who might be better (or not), disagreement about where the party should lean, further right and centralist or cling to Corbynism/Momentum, complaints about the Tories but no-one seems to consider why people who could be counted on to support labour, no longer do. You are all solid labour voters, you'll vote labour even if the sky fell in but clearly ATM there are not enough of you to win an election and gain power. Listening to the radio I've heard some ex labour supporters say why they changed to Conservative and tbh it didn't make comfortable listening, in deed some things I heard made me squirm. Brexit, immigration and one woman who said she felt labour was more interested in ethnic minorities than people like her. Not nice tbh but how does the LP deal with this? Batley and Spen looks like a lost cause unless they do!

varian

We do not always abandon idealism as we age. I have felt passionately about the need for electoral reform since I was a teenager. I would love, before I die, to see my country, the last undemocratic country in Europe, become a democracy and embrace PR.

Totally agree, varian

Anecdotal of course, but many of my peers from who were very left wing have now embraced the blue. Friends of my AC who also went to Uni have seen similar shifts.

I saw a wonderful woman, Lib Dem, on TV yesterday. No idea who she was I'm afraid. But I was listening and wondered why people like her don't end up in the top job.

Policies are the most important thing. But in today's society we need more.

We do not always abandon idealism as we age. I have felt passionately about the need for electoral reform since I was a teenager. I would love, before I die, to see my country, the last undemocratic country in Europe, become a democracy and embrace PR.

If it wasn’t for McCluskey (one of the ones baying fiord Starmers blood) Labour would probably have had David instead of Ed and we’d probably have a Labour Government now.

Some of us still do want a more left leaning Government, because we want to see an end to foodbanks and "fire and rehire" and other unfair employment practises. We want a leader of the Labour party to want a more equal society and not have to rely on a young footballer to point out what would be a decent thing to do.

Urmstongran I remember you stating that Andy Burnham was unpopular in Greater Manchester. I am glad that you now agree that he is popular. I think he is doing a really good job for us.

Labour could have had Andy Burnham, who I'm sure would have beaten Theresa May. But with all the free for all voting, Corbyn got in.

I agree that Keir's speeches are rather mind numbing. There's no charisma. He's dull.

Most people are not as passionate about politics as those posting on here. So charisma, eloquence and charm are needed as well as great policies. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is. A lot of people like Boris. They aren't that bothered about sleaze and wallpaper.

Also if we look back most politicians and PMs have faced criticism for this, that and the other. We don't expect anything less. Maybe we should.

Labour need Andy Burnham. I can't think of anyone else that could pull off the seemingly impossible feat of beating the Conservatives in the near future.

He will appeal to all ages. He does appeal to all ages.

Many young idealistic folk change their political views as they age as well. Something we seem to forget.

UKIP, the EDL, The English Nationalists et all, and the other right wing parties have been absorbed by the Tory Party.

In the meantime the anti- Tories are split between the Labour Party , the Liberal Democrats and the Greens.

If we lived in a democracy the anti-Tories, who are the largest group would be in the majority in parliament and be able to form a progressive coalition government.

As it is in our FPTP sham democracy we continue to be ruled by the will of the right wing minority.