The Grand National

suziewoozie

Iam64

No, don’t ban horses and ponies from the roads, expect drivers to treat other road users with respect and patience.

Expect damn horses not to be on our narrow country lanes during school run times and rush hours then.

Horses are classified as road traffic and have as much entitlement to use the public roads as does any other form of road traffic. Other road users need to be aware of them and to act accordingly.

There is no economic argument to be made for banning them as their owners contribute their taxes just like everyone else does.

MaizieD

The Grand National is actually more Horse Friendly than it was many years ago. The number of runners is restricted, where it used to be a free for all with perhaps 40 horses running.
Jumps have been made more resilient and less likely to injure a horse that hits one.
Use of the whip is restricted and the whips themselves are lighter and very well padded; designed to startle the horse by 'cracking' as they are wielded rather than to cause pain. This last is controversial, I find (having googled this topic,) as the horse does feel something when they land, a horse's skin being extremely sensitive all over. But these whips are less likely to cut or bruise the horse, unlike the old designs.

Having said all this in extenuation I still dislike horse racing, whether flat racing or Nation Hunt, because it is an industry where horses are mere commodities. They are bred in their thousands and very few end up as successful race horses. Many of the surplus end up in pet food tins, or may be shipped abroad for human consumption.

Some may be sold to leisure riders and many of these suffer from ending up in the hands of inexperienced riders; the last thing a very sensitive, highly strung thoroughbred needs.

Because the horses are very immature when they start racing many of them suffer bad physical damage from the strain on immature bones and have to be out down. This is the aspect I dislike the most; those beautiful animals damaged and destroyed in the service of greed.

Added to all this, most punters have no interest in or love of, horses. They're just a living equivalent of a casino, a gambling opportunity. In all the other equestrian sports most of the competitors cherish their horses and spectators are knowledgeable and appreciative of the the skills and teamwork that a successful horse and rider combination show. (Which is not ignoring the fact that there are professionals in every discipline, some of whom may not have quite the same attitude to the horses they ride)

Very informative thank you MaizieD....??????

Maizie my banning comment was flippant but my point about types of roads and times of use was not. It’s a real problem around here ( and don’t get me started on cycles)

To suggest that the majority of racehorses are mistreated and only seen as commodities by their owners is IME just not true. Most are very well cared for and when their racing careers are over many are retrained for the leisure rider or go into other equestrian sports like eventing or lower level dressage. Work riders and racing grooms love the horses they care for and take huge pleasure in seeing them run. Yes, it's an industry with a lot of money swilling around at the top end but that does not equate with abuse. I'm very iffy about flat racing because horses are ridden before they are physically mature and I won't defend that but I will defend the many caring and dedicated people who work in racing, it's wrong to assume they don't care about the horses.

Thank you Maizie for your excellent and knowledgeable post.

I will defend the many caring and dedicated people who work in racing, it's wrong to assume they don't care about the horses.

Apart from being a 'horsey' person, I do have some small acquaintance with local racing oriented establishments. I absolutely agree that the people who actually work with the horses, the stable lads, care a great deal about their charges. I'm not altogether sure about trainers and owners. I think it depends on the scale of the operation. A syndicate or an individual owning one horse could care a lot about their horse; I'm not so sure about the big time owners. And not all trainers are angels. One of our local trainers was struck off for running a horse that had been denerved...

But the thousands of people who keep the industry alive through betting are not, on the whole, much interested in horses as horses, just as a potential for making money. I do know many horsey people who love racing, but I think that they are really in the minority when it comes to racegoing and betting.

You have forgotten to mention , foxie the thousands of young thoroughbreds that never make it to the track. They do not end up being loved and cherished. Mostly they get eaten by people's pets...

And yes, I know that some get retrained, (I mentioned it in my post). I have a friend who has brought several to a very high standard in dressage. They can make excellent eventers, show jumpers or dressage horses, but they have to be handled by knowledgeable riders. It doesn't always happen.

Apologies for the error in my previous post it was meant to read a week not a day

We have had ex race horses at our yard, some are excitable some are gentle giants.

So, if horses shouldn’t be used for racing what is their place in the world. In what context should they exist at all being neither used/suitable for transport, agriculture, war or food? How many people can have a pet that lives for 30 + years that needs 7 days a week care and attention.

Horses are the most beautifull animals and i only watch the Grand national if i`m home,but i really don`t agree with whipping them when racing.
If racing was banned we wouldn`t see half the horses we do as thats what they are bred for.
A bit like cows/pigs and sheep really,if we didn`t eat them we wouldn`t see so many animal farms.
Fox hunting on the other hand should imo be banned as i think it`s barbaric.

Maybee your question is an interesting one with which I agree, horses are an expensive hobby and the horse lobby is very myopic about them! Where I live a great hoo ha is being kicked up about access to shared paths by horsey people who like to portray themselves as disadvantaged!

I used to ride and have spent time in the horse world, there is a lot of cruelty both intended and as a result of the needs of the horse which were not anticipated before it was acquired.

As to whips and horse racing, there are controls on how the whip can be used (never used to be) and jockeys are often punished for overuse of the whip. However, the jockey is doing a job, the owner expects to win and the trainer is frightened the if the horse doesn't win, the owner and horse will go elsewhere. The punters only care about their bet!

I can think of horse shows where a reluctant horse is 'assisted' to load into a horse box or trailer with a broom 'up its backside' much to the chortling of the horsey lookers on. If you interfere and protest you are a 'townie' or a 'tree hugger'. It's a mean world, poor old horses.

So, if horses shouldn’t be used for racing what is their place in the world.

They are used for recreation, and some even still 'work'. Dressage, show jumping, eventing, endurance riding, carriage driving and vaulting are all popular equestrian disciplines. Some people just like to toddle out on their horse and enjoy the countryside...

Then there are things like riding for the disabled which have many benefits for the participants.

I wouldn't worry, though, MayBee, I don't think there's any danger of horse racing being banned. It's too lucrative an industry.

If racing was banned we wouldn`t see half the horses we do as thats what they are bred for.

Not really true, timetogo.

It seems that there may be about 800,000+ horses in the the UK. There are probably about 12,000 registered as race horses. I doubt if you'd miss them if they went unless you lived in an area where there are lots of training yards.

If you think that a brush up the backside is cruel, JillyJosie2 you should see how horses discipline each other when living in groups.. kicking and biting aren't pleasant either...

BTW a brush up the backside is the gentle application of the bristly bit to the horse's hindquarters to make them go forward. With their very sensitive skin they find it uncomfortable and want to get away from it.

Anything more that an gentle prod is cruel... I don't have much time for it. either. If you have a poor loader you should spend time with it training it to load calmly and to overcome its fears.

They’re eaten abroad, not sure if they’re bred specifically?>

I hate horse racing I think it’s a really cruel sport and the horses seem disposable if they ever have a problem
How can man use and abuse so badly

www.horsedeathwatch.com/?fbclid=IwAR3xZpvod5rxDowQPYTF9KzxwU3-Mj7n5nKDfmC54lyQNZp95XVWPosHn-0

Why are animals of no use unless humans can exploit them? Horses, sheep, cows etc are originally wild animals, racehorses are inbred and not a natural species. So don’t worry that they won’t exist if we didn’t eat or beat them. If humans respected the natural world we wouldn’t be in the climate and health emergency we are currently in. What about that horrible trainer who took a selfie sitting on a dead horse.? Don’t think he loved his animals.

Horses tend to kick and bite each other because they are stressed at the way they are kept by people!
There are lots of little tricks like tickling tender skin on the bottom with a broom, so useful for a truclent grandchild don't you think?

JillyJosie2

Maybee your question is an interesting one with which I agree, horses are an expensive hobby and the horse lobby is very myopic about them! Where I live a great hoo ha is being kicked up about access to shared paths by horsey people who like to portray themselves as disadvantaged!

I used to ride and have spent time in the horse world, there is a lot of cruelty both intended and as a result of the needs of the horse which were not anticipated before it was acquired.

As to whips and horse racing, there are controls on how the whip can be used (never used to be) and jockeys are often punished for overuse of the whip. However, the jockey is doing a job, the owner expects to win and the trainer is frightened the if the horse doesn't win, the owner and horse will go elsewhere. The punters only care about their bet!

I can think of horse shows where a reluctant horse is 'assisted' to load into a horse box or trailer with a broom 'up its backside' much to the chortling of the horsey lookers on. If you interfere and protest you are a 'townie' or a 'tree hugger'. It's a mean world, poor old horses.

Yes, horse ownership can be an expensive hobby but lots of people would rather spend their hard earned money on their horse rather than on holidays, cars and meals out etc, so please don't assume that all horse owners are well off.

Perhaps I'm fortunate but I don't see a lot of cruelty, I do see a lack of knowledge from time to time but all the riders I know would never willingly hurt their horse. Many take more care with their horses than they do with themselves.

The use of whips, spurs, tightness of nosebands etc are much better regulated now and the various sport bodies like BE, BD and BS are constantly updating their rules to protect the horse, just as racing has done with regard to use of the whip, which is now designed to make a noise rather than inflict pain. FWIW I always ride with spurs and a long whip, not to punish the horse but to refine the aids. TBH I've always found a horse who wants to work for his rider is a much nicer than one that a rider tries to force by inflicting pain.

With regard to using a broom to encourage a reluctant loader I can only add, having broken down on a busy A road, traffic had been stopped in both directions to enable me to load our eventer into the rescue lorry so mine could be taken to the garage to be repaired. He'd never refused to load but the combination of having stood around on a lorry for hours waiting for recovery, a different rear facing 3.5 ton lorry which he was unfamiliar with and the whole experience of being transferred with police and lights and loads of traffic, he did what a lot of horses would do. He planted, 600kg of horse not wanting to go anywhere especially not on a strange lorry. Fortunately the application of a few bristles up his bottom got him thinking forward and he loaded. I very much doubt he was traumatised by the experience whereas I needed a stiff gin when I got home!

Foxie48 we had an incident when our mare totally lost it in the double trailer. We had to pull over on the busy seafront road, unload two horses, re-jig central partition and then reload.
What we didn’t need was the general public gathered round and motorists beeping!!
The adult humans definitely needed a drink

I saw Momty Roberts (aka the horse whisperer) working with horses and ponies several years ago. One pony had not been boxed since he was injured involved in a traffic accident two years earlier. His scars were visible, the story very similar to the one in the film with Paul Newman. It took Monty 15 minutes to join with the pony who began to walk quietly at his side around the ring and then, up the ramp into the horse box. Repeated a number of times. Queue tears and hugs from 12 year old owner and her mum.
His life story is very interesting.
I understand the examples given by foxy and granygravy. Not everyone can summons Monty to the side of a busy road.

GG13 I love my horses, I spend most of my money on them but it really irritates me, that people who have never handled fit competition horses, think they know about horses. They don't! It's a real skill riding a horse round a Grand National Course, you can't beat them round, they need to want to do it, they need to trust their rider, know their job and be super talented. There may be some abusive people in racing as there are in any sport and any cruelty saddens me, but they are not the people who produce the really special horses. Most of the horses that I know who are a problem are with owners who don't understand how a horse interacts with his peers in the field, they are not cruel, they are inconsistent in their handling so the horse doesn't understand his boundaries.....just like a lot of children!

Foxie48 our last boy we had from a 2 yr old DD backed him, won ODE’s on him.
She loves difficult mounts and often helps out new owners
Usually it’s the owners not the horses/ponies

I completely agree that it's the owners not the horses, trouble is most owners insist they're right!
My daughter works with horses and was, for a long time, rehabilitation manager for a rescue centre. I've heard many a story about people who think they know about horses.
As you probably know, there's a lot of controversy about Monty Roberts. Many of the horse establishment vilified him from day one and he's pretty out of favour now.

Jillyjosie

Horses tend to kick and bite each other because they are stressed at the way they are kept by people!
There are lots of little tricks like tickling tender skin on the bottom with a broom, so useful for a truclent grandchild don't you think?

Don't be silly. They do the same thing in the wild.

I don't think you know very much about horses.

Maizie that's just insulting And how typical of the know it all types who inhabit the horse world. You've just proved my point.

I also detest the National. There have been some changes in recent years but overall it's a cruel sport. I refused to participate in sweeps at work 30 years ago when it was quite clear to me that the horses were being asked to do too much. No doubt it will be banned one day.