The Troubles

The Nolan show is discussing the non prosecution decision. Might be interesting. I stress might.

Amber Spyglass What nonsense to say those soldiers were there to protect the union.

Initially those troops were sent in to help restore order and were welcomed by the Catholic population. I have Irish friends from both sides whose families left to escape the violence and they don’t hold the romanticised view of the Irish ‘freedom fighters’ that those who didn’t live through it hold.

Iam64

AmberSpyglass, the paramilitaries murdered, knee capped, behaved like the gangsters many of the still are. The army went in to attempt to save lives. Lives were lost on all sides.
Katie59, you know your brothers experience wasn’t isolated. Terrifying for everyone, including those young soldiers. It’s lazy and simplistic to absolve terrorists of responsibility for murder/torture/criminal behaviour and to refuse to allow men in their 70’s some peace.

Yes.

AmberSpyglass

Nana I’m pretty sure a lot of the people in NI - not just the ones who experienced war crimes at the hands of British Troops - would speak from their actual experience.

The army should never have been there at all.

Well I have lived here all my life and I'm glad the army was here.
Katie59 sympathy to your brother. I still have nightmares.

Sunseeker has a point. The GFA wasn't well thought through. I didn't say yes to it. I knew there would be problems later.
And as someone pointed out, in NI there are always two sides to everything.
Integrated education is a must. Good luck with that!

trisher

We could have a Statute of Limitations as other countries do. But it would apply to other crimes as well. So would you want to see a sex offender escape prosecuting because of the time that has elapsed?

The basic issue with a statute of limitations is differential treatment of individuals for the same offence. Say for example that after 10 years you can’t be charged. Person A is arrested and charged after 9 years 11 months. Two months later, Person B who committed a similar offence at the same time, can’t be charged . Nope, not fair, not justice

I don't understand why anyone can agree that it was OK for terrorists to be pardoned but still want to hound men who risked their lives, serving their country. If one side is pardoned, then so should the other.

We could have a Statute of Limitations as other countries do. But it would apply to other crimes as well. So would you want to see a sex offender escape prosecuting because of the time that has elapsed?

Daisymae

I think that 50 years is too long. These events haven't just come to light they have been known about for all these years. Surely there has to come a time when the best that could happen is that we learn from history?

I agree the delays in the system don’t help but I still feel uncomfortable imposing time limits without thinking through what that really means. And we don’t learn from history do we? Some examples from Iraq prove that.

I think that 50 years is too long. These events haven't just come to light they have been known about for all these years. Surely there has to come a time when the best that could happen is that we learn from history?

It isn't assuming anyone is guilty to think that if they have been accused of a crime they should be properly tried in a court of law.

No Trisher I didn’t say it was but I did say there is always 2 sides of a story .

As far as I’m concerned Amber I have yet to find a news source , respected or otherwise that doesn’t sensationalise the news they are reporting , you only have to look at the last year to see that .

I lived some of those years in Northern Ireland . I can only say what I saw and experienced . I may not be a respected news source but I was there.

Not sure of this documentary is available anywhere now

Harrowing viewing. Desperately sad.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/07/requiem-to-the-troubles-bbc-to-air-film-documenting-northern-irelands-dead-lost-lives

Nana you do realise that I’m not randomly making all this up, right? That I’m getting it from respected news sources?

NanaandGrampySo i's OKfor men to abuse young girls as long as they are in uniform.

Currently, you are assuming they are guilty .

You assume they did anything to deliberately undermine their mission. You make assumptions ABOUT their mission .

And you know what they say about assuming anything ?

No one is saying otherwise. But that doesn’t mean that the soldiers who were there supposedly representing Britain to keep the peace and who deliberately undermined that mission with their actions shouldn’t face justice. I don’t see how you can justify that?

Ooops pram not pray !

And for every story like that Trisher I can relate one I actually saw.

Take the time I watched 2 young boys drag a shovel round behind a wall and try to brain the last marine in a patrol ?

Or the ground glass in coffee offered to patrols?

Or the weapons hidden under an infant in a pray?

I’m not saying every soldier was perfect but I am saying there are 2 sides to every story.

Did anyone say they did behave impeccably? The ex military I’ve known with haven’t been very different from the lads drawn into gangs, groomed into paramilitary organisations

The idea that all the British soldiers in NI behaved impeccably is wrong. A friend growing up there remembers being spat at by some on her way to school, she was a Catholic of course and theyknew from her uniform.
If soldiers are to be trusted to keep the peace anywhere they must be accountable. if they are not they put succeeding recruits in more danger.

Sorry I don’t mean we shouldn’t look back and learn from history.

If, if, if Loislovestewie but it happened. So did many other invasions, colonisation, slavery. We have to find a way forward without constantly looking back

Perhaps GB shouldn't have started the Ulster Plantation/invaded Ireland etc then there would be no problems there at all.

varian

"It almost seemed miraculous in South Africa what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission achieved"

I seem to remember a cross party group from NI visiting SA to ask advice on the way to reconcile. They were told that the one thing they should do is integrate the schools.

Have they done that?

I read a survey of parents in NI who were asked whether they wanted their children to be able to attend integrated schools. Over 90% said yes, yet less than 10% have that opportunity.

Not sure South Africa is a good role model, how many white farmers have been murdered recently?