What I think will happen tomorrow

Sparkling

My father would not recognise his beloved Labour Party Urmstongran. All his life he was an active member. Although we had different views, his were coloured mainly by his time in the war and what he witnessed, he could discuss differences in a rational way and respected others views, the very opposite of what the party is now for all the reasons you state. To support Corbyn was unbelievable. Now there is a multi millionaire lawyer head of Labour, not speaking against the woke movement and the social disruption. My grandchildren will grow up thinking this is how grown ups behave and therefore acceptable. We have as a nation readily let these bullies have almost free reign. I am glad I'm the age I am, despite the financial hardships in the first third of my life I worked and made it better and didn't blame the world for my problems and expect others to pick up the tab. A member of my family who has unfortunately never taken responsibility and gets every benefit going despite not wanting to work. I say not wanting he's more than capable., Whitewave, it's you that shouts predudice if you think having moral values is wrong that otgers can't stand this woke, taking the knee etc. I would be interested if any of these protestors actualy work, it must be awful working along side one with all their entitlement and angst.,Heaven knows what would have happened if labour had been in power through this pandemic, but they do come up with solutions after the event.

Some of the views you are expressing have never been Labour views. Labour has never "respected" prejudice or bias. Indeed it has always fought against such ideas. It's fine to listen to others views but there comes a time when their prejudices become unacceptable and then you need to speak out. If that's being "woke" then thank goodness I am. If social disruption is demonstrating against those ideas well I'm all for that as well. Our father's Labour Party laid the foundations of the society we have now, a society which is steadily slipping back into the social conditions which existed before 1945. Where people live in substandard housing and need charity to keep their families alive. It's not "taking the knee"that is a disgrace it's that anyone who knows what working class people came from should accept such standards for anyone else today.

nanna8 So, what does Johnson know? Being Eton and Oxford educated.

nanna8

Funny how the Monty Python mob were all rich upper middle class Oxford/ Cambridge types. What would they know?

Apart from Michael Palin, the fathers of the others Pythons were working men . A police constable, a traveling salesman, a bank clerk, an insurance salesman Eric Idle's father served in the RAF and was killed in a road accident whilst hitch hiking home for Christmas in 1945.

I find your comments quite outrageous. Cleese's mother was the daughter of an auctioneer and when she inherited some money she paid for him to go to a prep school and when he was 13 he won an exhibition to a public school. Gilliam is American so a different school system. Palin went to prep school and then public school. The other three went to grammar schools.

Hardly rich upper middle class are they, with the possible exception of Michael Palin.

I suggest you do a bit of research before coming out with unfounded comments about peoples' backgrounds. The only thing you got right was that, apart from Gilliam, they were Oxbridge educated,

Regarding the turnout suzie, some polls are predicting a turnout like that for the independence referendum in Scotland in 2014. That was 86% or so, I think that's optimistic but we're certainly motivated up here.

Published in Le Monde today.

Well, since Labour in my area, privatised the borough's council housing 20 years ago, they washed their hands to the fact that they left well over 9,000 families on the housing waiting list. A disgrace.

Instead of tackling the problem they allowed many green spaces to be sold off to private developers to build homes that were financially out of reach of many people----allowing second-rate bedsits instead ! For the majority of their constituents. Cruel !

C'mon Labour, what are you doing with all the money in your ruling boroughs ?
Take Liverpool for instance----" a toxic culture of intimidation and bullying ! £100 million---Lost !
Whistle blowers who were left in fear and audit trails of documents dumped in skips. Who'd vote for a party like this ?

The GE in 2019 saw Labour win every constituency in Merseyside .
Now, there's an independent investigation into investments and developments to see/ find out what's been going on.

How disgusting is this ? Jobs for the boys and general jiggery-pokery with public money. It's how Labour operate ! Bullies too !! ( which is evident on GN)
I can sniff out a Labour voter a mile off, they are the ones who are " badly done to " but own properties etc. and in my experience, are quite well off too. Double standards play a huge part here as does the entitlement attitude. It's all about the attitude ( militant )

Example : Labour councillors in my area have chosen not to give their addresses on the ballot paper---I wonder why ? Some beautiful houses on the Wirral ! Mmm. One thing laughs at another when they start crowing about poverty and the economy----from their mansions !
Addresses of the Conservatives are on ballot papers---they live locally and I know where one lives.

Labour's motto---" I'm alright Jack ".

Well said @urmstongran

That was me that said that.

So you did, WWMk2, I apologise to you and GG13 for muddling your posts.

But I'd still like the rightwingers to explain because it is an accusation frequently levelled by them

who said that

MaizieD

^But there is a tiny minority who support extreme politics.^

When you come back from your walk and have recovered a bit, GG13, I'd really like to know what form these 'extreme politics' take, because most of the people I feel I have something in common with, politics wise, on this forum seem to me to be perfectly reasonable.

It's very difficult to get anyone from the right to explain just what they understand to be 'extreme' politics and what makes this politics so deplorable. (I really don't count the recent rash of 'anti-woke' posts as being rational or clearly explaining anything)

That was me that said that.

If I go into an explanation I’ll probably get zapped.

But there is a tiny minority who support extreme politics.

When you come back from your walk and have recovered a bit, GG13, I'd really like to know what form these 'extreme politics' take, because most of the people I feel I have something in common with, politics wise, on this forum seem to me to be perfectly reasonable.

It's very difficult to get anyone from the right to explain just what they understand to be 'extreme' politics and what makes this politics so deplorable. (I really don't count the recent rash of 'anti-woke' posts as being rational or clearly explaining anything)

I could question that those GN members who are retired have no idea what it is like to run a business during a pandemic and are out of touch with business and industry in 2021, but I would not be so rude to do so.

I don't think anyone with left of centre views has expressed any opinions on this particular topic. so \i'm not sure where you get this idea from, GG13.

Personally I'm all for a good mixed economy. There are areas that the State is right to control for the benefit of all its citizens and areas where private enterprise is beneficial too. SMEs are the lifeblood of the economy, they provide jobs and services and respond well to people's wants and needs. If they didn't they would go under.

I may be retired, I may have only worked in the public sector, but I can appreciate how very difficult it has been for many SMEs during the pandemic, and that the chaotic Brexit we are enduring had added greatly to the difficulties they are facing if their businesses have been closely integrated with the EU.

I volunteer for a heritage institution which has to be completely self supporting. I know how it has struggled during the pandemic and how it has had to respond to the challenges it has had to face. So please don't assume that all retired people live in some weird state of ignorance.

I could add that it has seemed to me to be Brexit voters who have failed to appreciate the problems of SMEs caused by the final 'Agreement', but that's another story, isn't it?

whitewavemark2 I should probably retire from GN this morning, I have had little sleep, a splitting headache and more than a little tetchy (I shall go for a long walk so as not to inflict my mood on DH)

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 do you really think that posters are identifying with white supremacists or fascists?

If your answer is yes, please take this Conservative out of your equation.

I would hope that you are sufficiently familiar with my views to know that I am quite capable of distinguishing between various political viewpoints and those who have said that they support white supremicists and fascists are not imo traditional tories.

The vast majority on here are middle of the road - a bit left or a bit right. But there is a tiny minority who support extreme politics.

MaizieD

^I don't think I have ever seen so many far right extremists on a thread on GN.^

I think that they are just thoroughly confused, Pippa. They subscribe more to the beliefs fed to them by the tory press than by genuine tory values.

I would like to think that is true Maizie but the same could be said of any of those who follow men (it has been men so far) who subsequently become dictators, etc.

As I always say if I report a post I hope whoever persuaded GNHQ to delete mine is going to tell us who they are.

Alegrias1

*GG13*, I was disagreeing with a post, now deleted, that talked about the far right. So I could respectfully point out that you have got the wrong end of the stick entirely.

So I'm not stereotyping people, I'm doing the opposite,. Criticising a group of people with certain characteristics is not stereotyping. I know that there are Conservative voters on GN that I agree with on many things. But there are some, let's say, rather extreme ones.

Constantly being on the defence and seeing criticism where none is intended, that's not doing us any good either.

I will admit to not reading the deleted post/s , if I have got the wrong end of the stick (or even the wrong stick) I apologise.

GG13, I was disagreeing with a post, now deleted, that talked about the far right. So I could respectfully point out that you have got the wrong end of the stick entirely.

So I'm not stereotyping people, I'm doing the opposite,. Criticising a group of people with certain characteristics is not stereotyping. I know that there are Conservative voters on GN that I agree with on many things. But there are some, let's say, rather extreme ones.

Constantly being on the defence and seeing criticism where none is intended, that's not doing us any good either.

Whitewavemark2 do you really think that posters are identifying with white supremacists or fascists?

If your answer is yes, please take this Conservative out of your equation.

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1 as for your last sentence, I am not taking it personally and getting offended

I hoped to point out that continued all encompassing statements regarding far right is as futile as a Conservative calling out the looney left, (which I would respectfully point out I would never do)

Neither extreme position is helpful or constructive, and to continue to stereotype folks will get us (GN posters) or the UK anywhere.

I think that if people identify with white supremicists or fascists, then they qualify as extremists.

Alegrias1 as for your last sentence, I am not taking it personally and getting offended

I hoped to point out that continued all encompassing statements regarding far right is as futile as a Conservative calling out the looney left, (which I would respectfully point out I would never do)

Neither extreme position is helpful or constructive, and to continue to stereotype folks will get us (GN posters) or the UK anywhere.

GrannyGravy13

I have no relatives past or present who have been down the pit however, we have been down a disused Gold Mine in Bendigo.

I have never known anyone to live in a paper bag in the middle of the road I do know many young couples struggling with mortgages, bills etc.

I have plenty of friends who come under the LGBTQ banner.

To make sweeping generalisations that Conservatives have no idea how real people live is laughable in the extreme.

I could question that those GN members who are retired have no idea what it is like to run a business during a pandemic and are out of touch with business and industry in 2021, but I would not be so rude to do so.

Who mentioned Conservatives?

Also, I didn't say right wing people didn't know how real people live, I said they don't know what the world is like.

Also I didn't say everyone was like that, but I said that there were people like that.

This is the trouble, isn't it, you can't make any point without somebody taking it personally and getting offended. Where have I heard that before?

And working in the law is somehow a barrier to winning elections. It really isnt.

Alegrias1

nanna8

Funny how the Monty Python mob were all rich upper middle class Oxford/ Cambridge types. What would they know?

Really? That was what you took from my post? All well, at least we're not complaining about pencils.

BTW - Cleese's dad was an insurance salesman and Gilliam's was a travelling salesman then a carpenter. Terry Jones's dad was a bank clerk. Oh, the privilege.....

The depressing regularity with which the average right wing poster makes up things as they go along ...I’ve almost given up cross checking.

I have no relatives past or present who have been down the pit however, we have been down a disused Gold Mine in Bendigo.

I have never known anyone to live in a paper bag in the middle of the road I do know many young couples struggling with mortgages, bills etc.

I have plenty of friends who come under the LGBTQ banner.

To make sweeping generalisations that Conservatives have no idea how real people live is laughable in the extreme.

I could question that those GN members who are retired have no idea what it is like to run a business during a pandemic and are out of touch with business and industry in 2021, but I would not be so rude to do so.

BTW - Cleese's dad was an insurance salesman and Gilliam's was a travelling salesman then a carpenter. Terry Jones's dad was a bank clerk. Oh, the privilege.....

It's this strange tory belief that Labour doesn't support workers' aspiration but anyone who does come from the working classes who 'betters' themselves can be sneered at for not being real working class...