What I think will happen tomorrow

suzie I agree with you, I think the breadth of vision comes from education in its broadest sense & a good leader listens to, as well as draws on the strengths of the team, rather than developing a cult of personal celebrity.

Diane Abbott seems to have forgotten the Labour Party lost two general elections because voters didn’t want the country run by the left.

tickingbird

Urmstongran

According to Diane Abbott's great reasoning

You couldn’t make this stuff up

Diane Abbott can make anything up, especially if it involves basic arithmetic ?

FGS - really? Really ? Really ?Really ?

But she's right Urmstongran in 2017 with socialist policies the LP did better. Of course there is the Brexit vote which is a huge factor, but socialist Labour with a union official standing as MP did better than 2021
Possibly some Labour voters stayed home and some chose Tory because they want a share of the wealth.

Urmstongran

According to Diane Abbott's great reasoning

You couldn’t make this stuff up

Diane Abbott can make anything up, especially if it involves basic arithmetic ?

janeainsworth

^They .........think that whilst Starmer plays on the fact he started life in a working class family he identifies more with the London elite than the man and woman in the street^.
And that’s the problem with identity politics isn’t it - the idea that the interests of a particular group are more important than the interests of society as a whole, and that unless a politician identifies with a group, they can’t possibly understand the group’s situation or be trusted to further anyone’s interests except their own group’s.

I too want my politicians to be intelligent but I’d also like them to have the breadth of vision that serves & unifies the whole country.

But where do politicians get breadth of vision from? And isn’t wanting to serve snd unify the whole country a particular political perspective and not a generalised political aim? These are genuine questions I don’t know the answers to. But then maybe it’s all about having the right team so that the collective experience gives a broad vision? That’s why I guess it’s dangerous to have too much emphasis on the PM as embodying everything. From in-depth anslyses I’ve read, both Attlee and Wilson were experts at using the experiences and knowledge of others and drawing it altogether. Some of the best teams I’ve worked in have been led by quiet unassuming ( on the surface) people who were brilliant at drawing the best out of everyone in the team - it was never ‘all about them’. They inspired loyalty and hard work and respect across the board. Our increasingly football teams political system seems to prevent all this . There’s no serious cross part working apart from some good stuff from select committees.

Oldwoman70

The Labour party has lost ground simply because they don't listen to the voters. I know many former Labour voters who say they no longer recognise the party as representing the workers. They disliked Corbyn's extreme views and think that whilst Starmer plays on the fact he started life in a working class family he identifies more with the London elite than the man and woman in the street.

I don't think Labour not listening to voters is found in just the LP. The Tories listen, in small rooms with small numbers, to voters and then repeat back to the voter what they have heard so they appear to be "like us". However, I have yet to see a Tory government which has improved life for all or even those they mimic. One day, fairly soon I hope, they will be found out by those who are currently not bothering to think things through.

Well. - According to Diane Abbott's great reasoning Labour lost because they were not Left wing enough.

So, erm, that's why the good people of Hartlepool voted for a more Right wing party?

You couldn’t make this stuff up.

They .........think that whilst Starmer plays on the fact he started life in a working class family he identifies more with the London elite than the man and woman in the street.
And that’s the problem with identity politics isn’t it - the idea that the interests of a particular group are more important than the interests of society as a whole, and that unless a politician identifies with a group, they can’t possibly understand the group’s situation or be trusted to further anyone’s interests except their own group’s.

I too want my politicians to be intelligent but I’d also like them to have the breadth of vision that serves & unifies the whole country.

Sometimes you wish for FPTP...

(joke)

Even with Covid the Tory's have started well in the NE since the 2019 election:

Delivered Brexit.

The new Treasury office at Darlington.

Freeport on Teeside.

The Labour party has lost ground simply because they don't listen to the voters. I know many former Labour voters who say they no longer recognise the party as representing the workers. They disliked Corbyn's extreme views and think that whilst Starmer plays on the fact he started life in a working class family he identifies more with the London elite than the man and woman in the street.

growstuff

Theoddbird

Conservatives have won a labour seat of many many years. They have also upted their council seats. Says a lot does that.

What exactly do you think it says?

What kind of MP (of any political party) would improve the lives of the majority in Hartlepool?

A Conservative one - namely Jill Mortimer.

sunseeker

I think the "working class" have changed but the Labour party hasn't. It still treats everyone as if they are working in mills and coal mines, are uneducated and unable to think for themselves. The majority of the electorate understand more than the Labour party give them credit for.

They want to be allowed to improve their lives and the lives of their families - like it or not whilst they support equality they are not impressed by politicians "taking the knee".

I agree.

I hadn’t heard of Shaun Bailey

Alegrias1

Sounds pretty likely to me. Although I have never heard of Shaun Bailey.

Should I be embarrassed?

No!!

The far left started putting the boot in yesterday, Corbyn , McClusky .

I want my politicians to be clever. One of the reasons I didn't like Corbyn was I thought I was cleverer than he was. I like Starmers intelligence.

Yes growstuffs was a good post but completely depressing

Labour needs to change so much. How can a party that elected Corbyn and put up with his shannanigans be taken seriously. If they don't present a strong opposition soon, get a leader that is relevant with some ideas, not a multi millionaire clever lawyer, most importantly come up with ideas and solutions before and not after the decisions have been made and listen to the concerns of the people they represent they will be history. They just don't listen. The Woke movement is really upsetting that many people, majority sick and tired of it.

jane very helpful addition imo - thanks

Brilliant post Growstuff.

I hardly dare add anything, except to say that the whole referendum/Brexit process acted as a catalyst for a sea change in loyalties & identity in British politics and a split not between the old right and left, but between progressive and small-c conservative, liberal and authoritarian.

Best analysis I’ve seen growstuff - thoughtful, realistic and very sobering.

I agree growstuff , the working class has changed

I agree growstuff , the working class has changed , and parenting has changed .