Anyone understand why Johnson is so far ahead in the polls? ( 2)

Oh and, hurrah, the economy is going to be ok. Well, that’s all that matters to some isn’t it.....

Doing just fine. Tell that to all the people that have lost loved ones. How callous....

Pillorying? ?Ah come on Casdon ...it’s called being honest.
I can understand that burying heads in the sand ( because it’s more comfortable) is rather nice for those who always seem to wish that the UK does worse than any EU country.Newsflash!
We are doing just fine and are set to continue hopefully, as far as Covid is concerned, and are set to do better than was thought economically according to the BOE.

You’re right Mamie it’s not a competition. Every country has made mistakes. People who think the UK has done better than others overall are burying their heads in the sand, it’s probably more comfortable to do that so I can understand it - but pillorying other nations is not helpful.

lemongrove

Alegrias1

France had 250 deaths this week

Hmmm .... check your figures.....

Yes, you are quite right.....250 is the daily number of deaths on Tuesday 11th May in France ( 267 in Germany.)

Funny how figures vary. According to Sante Publique France the number of deaths as at 12 May was 107,119 including 184 deaths on Wednesday. The numbers are falling and there is a long way to go before the UK number of deaths is reached.

I accept that France was very slow to respond. Probably because it doesn't have an NHS the approach in the beginning was quite disjointed.

My original point in referring to France was that the UK was not the only country supporting workers financially. Other countries are doing that too.

As regards comparing France and the UK, this was in answer to Chesnut who told me that France had a smaller population. Which is true but only 2.5 million fewer. Comparing the percentages of the urban population is valid as the figures are very close. As I said, it is in the rural areas where the population density in France is smaller. I think that in the more sparsely populated areas in the UK, the number of cases is also fewer.

For those who are interested the number of first vaccines given reached 18.55 million on Wednesday.

Yes the UK is 2 months ahead with the vaccine programme.
Here in France the children have had more days in school than almost all other European countries, other hospital treatments and operations have continued, as have face to face GP appointments. I detest the idea of turning Covid into some kind of competition, but there are other factors besides speed of vaccination.

GrannyGravy13

I think I would be happier if this information came from more than one source.

Well, I don't think that a team of respected investigative reporters, working for a respected right wing newspaper, would be making it up. I wouldn't even have mentioned it had it come from a left wing source; that would have been pointless.

Plenty of it is familiar from other sources, such as minutes of Sage meetings, documentaries about the PPE shortages and its causes, parliamentary select committee reports, other newspaper reports and NHS whistleblowers. We even know ourselves how ministers have lied; such as the fiasco over the test target for the end of April 2020. It's just been pulled together into a book.

There is little doubt that many European countries have made a hash of dealing with covid,

There is no reason to think that we would have been any different, GillT57. It was the vaccines that saved us. Even so, we were well ahead of Europe in the number of excess deaths before the vaccine kicked in.

Incidence in France now 184 per 100,000. R number 0.77. Case numbers, admissions to hospital, admissions to intensive care all falling by about 20% per week. 28% of adults vaccinated. Over 500,000 vaccinations per day.
Data below for anyone interested in facts.
covidtracker.fr/

I think I would be happier if this information came from more than one source.

I have not heard of anywhere / any hospital in the UK where patients who needed ventilation or other forms of Oxygen delivery where left to die on wards?

I can recommend a very good book, GG13. It's called 'Failures of the State'. It's all in there. From the Sunday Times Insight team, who've been investigating the government's covid strategies right from the start and published a few articles about it over the course of 2020.

Of course you won't have heard much, or anything at all about this because hospital staff were not allowed to speak out (though some did) and it was hotly denied that there was some sort of points system in use where if a patient scored higher than a certain score they were, to put it baldly, left to die. But it happened.

lemongrove

Lucca it works both ways, there are many who would vote for the proverbial pig in a red rosette too.
I can see that ( for instance) M Thatcher’s government did some good things and so did T Blair’s government come to that. If Labour had been in power and done much the same as the present government I would praise them.
It’s oh so easy after the event to be critical, but the pandemic caused governments everywhere to tear their collective hair out.
Different countries took a different tack on some aspects of dealing with Covid, all were in trouble.

Spot on, Lemongrove, spot on. What we will never know is how Labour would have dealt with it. Would the death toll be any different and where would we be today? ?

Chestnut

Dinahmo The Nightingale Hospitals were a knee jerk reaction to the situation and ill considered.
I'm sure they could do with a few of those in India at the moment, so not ill considered at all. It was done in anticipation of a mass outbreak and showed foresight. I'm sure you would have been even more outraged if people had been dying in the road as there were no hospital beds.

Of course they could do with them in India - it would be good if they could be dismantled and shipped there. Johnson rushed to do something quickly without much thought and preparation. We all knew that the NHS was understaffed. Where did he think he was going to find hte stff for the Nightingale Hospitals?

There is little doubt that many European countries have made a hash of dealing with covid, especially difficult to explain why, after all the severe and draconian lock downs imposed in Spain, France, Italy, they then are very slow on getting their vaccine programmes up and running. This is worrying of course, but it does illustrate that each country within the Eu is responsible for their decisions regardning covid, so why are there still Tory MPs ( and GN members) spewing out the claims that we would have been unable to vaccinate as many as we have if we had still been in the EU? To give credit where it is due, the vaccine programme has been a huge success and something that the NHS and the battalion of volunteers can be proud of. Whether or not Johnson can be congratulated is a moot point and much debated.

www.graphics.reuters.com this site has Covid-19 tracker for EU and rest of the world.

Numbers are not rising in Germany, France or Spain.

Just stop making stuff up, folks, please.

At least, numbers are rising in the sense that the total of cases since this all started is higher today than it was yesterday. But that's the same in the UK and everywhere else!

Chestnut

*Maizie D* The Nightingales were useless because there was no-one to staff them. The NHS was already short staffed and was stretched to breaking point and beyond.
Okay, what is your answer, how would you (and other critics) have dealt with the crisis, with too many patients and not enough nursing staff? I'm sure all those attacking Johnson for his approach would have handled the pandemic so much better. Do enlighten us.

I know, I wish they would answer this. Frau Merkel started well, but at present numbers are rising, same in France and Spain. So no one PM, apart from Australia and NZ, have managed it no better.

Lucca

Also what do we make of a man who is a remainer and then switches tack and goes all out Brexit, makes a speech ridiculing the idea of ID cards and now has this as one of his policies ?

Perhaps he saw the error of his ways ?

As you were. Back to the gloom and doom. ?

I thought it all sounded very odd GG13 so am not at all surprised.

The CCJ against Mr Johnson was brought by a Left Wing activist, Yvonne Hobbs, with a history of vexatious claims. Ms.Hobbs is a Covid-19 conspiracy theorist

No.1O spokeswoman said ^ an application will be made for an order to set aside the default judgment, to strike out the claim and for a declaration that the claim is totally without merit^

This is all over internet today, awaiting BBC comments?

Lucca it works both ways, there are many who would vote for the proverbial pig in a red rosette too.
I can see that ( for instance) M Thatcher’s government did some good things and so did T Blair’s government come to that. If Labour had been in power and done much the same as the present government I would praise them.
It’s oh so easy after the event to be critical, but the pandemic caused governments everywhere to tear their collective hair out.
Different countries took a different tack on some aspects of dealing with Covid, all were in trouble.

I remember the praise and acclamation for those countries building Covid hospitals and the cries of ‘Why don’t we do that here?

Some doctors in Italy suggested patients should be treated at home because their hospitals were overwhelmed. Perhaps we should have listened to that instead of building Nightingale hospitals.

Chestnut

*Maizie D* The Nightingales were useless because there was no-one to staff them. The NHS was already short staffed and was stretched to breaking point and beyond.
Okay, what is your answer, how would you (and other critics) have dealt with the crisis, with too many patients and not enough nursing staff? I'm sure all those attacking Johnson for his approach would have handled the pandemic so much better. Do enlighten us.

This does seem to be a standard reply from some when they have already been answered. Strange but true. I'll try.

If we had had enough staff in the hospitals we would have saved more lives. Building the Nightingales was brilliantly done by all involved but the initial decision did not take all the facts into account. Similarly, building them in India would mean that people would be just going there to die - better than the street perhaps but still not providing more vaccine or oxygen.

Maybe we should stop saying we are short of "beds" and admit we are short of staff.

Also re the pandemic situation I have often said I’d have actually liked to have thatcher in charge. She would have been a much more sensible leader......(and I could stand her !)

I really am sick to the teeth of people saying I criticise a particular party or politician because I don’t like them. I look at each politician and situation individually and will always give credit where credit is due.