Anyone understand why Johnson is so far ahead in the polls? ( 2)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13297573
It comes as the Lib Dems suffered a rout in English local elections - and the SNP scored an historic victory in the Scottish Parliament poll.

The only chance we have had to change this was during the Nick and Dave coalition. It should have been Nick's price for handing the keys of 10 Downing Street to his mate Dave.

Do you mean they should not have held a referendum on it, just pushed it through Parliament without asking the voting public, varian?

Would that have been democratic?

We did‼️
It was in 2011.

This from Wiki -

“The United Kingdom Alternative Vote referendum, also known as the UK-wide referendum on the Parliamentary voting system was held on Thursday 5 May 2011 (the same date as local elections in many areas) in the United Kingdom (UK) to choose the method of electing MPs at subsequent general elections. It occurred as a provision of the Conservative–Liberal Democrat coalition agreement drawn up in 2010 (after a general election that had resulted in the first hung parliament since February 1974) and also indirectly in the aftermath of the 2009 expenses scandal. It operated under the provisions of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011 and was the first national referendum to be held under provisions laid out in the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000.”

“The referendum concerned whether or not to replace the present "first-past-the-post" system with the "alternative vote" (AV) method, and was the first national referendum to be held across the whole of the United Kingdom in the twenty-first century. The proposal to introduce AV was rejected by 67.9% of voters on a national turnout of 42%.”

Seems the majority (who bothered to vote ? ^us lot^) decided they didn’t want to change things.

Wasn’t there a vote years ago on FPTP v Proportional Representation? I’m sure I remember having one nd it got defeated. Must go and Google ...

The downside of PR is a government of vociferous differences. Yes, in theory, healthy, respectful and bringing a consensus to the table. In reality? Haha! Just look at the mess in Spain for example. It’s frustrating beyond belief so no thank you from me.

varian

Why is a party with 36% of the vote able to dictate to us for the foreseeable future ?

This could never happen in a democratic country.

1: Because not enough of the voters for other parties voted for their own candidate.
2: Because more people voted for Tories.
Ridiculing people for voting for a party often has the opposite effect.
When turn out is low, that means there is plenty of opportunity to change the result, if only non-voters bothered to vote. They don’t, but they still moan about the result.
A large number of countries have compulsory voting. It reduces the need for spending millions persuading people to vote. Some countries have penalties for not voting. Evidence shows it may not make a country more democratic, but voters could have more confidence in the outcome.
How about here? Although I can already imagine the cries of ‘infringement of my civil liberties’.

varian

Why is a party with 36% of the vote able to dictate to us for the foreseeable future ?

This could never happen in a democratic country.

That will be because we operate a FPTP system. The only chance we have had to change this was during the Nick and Dave coalition. It should have been Nick's price for handing the keys of 10 Downing Street to his mate Dave.

Missed opportunity that some of us will never forgive.

Mollygo

PippaZ no he didn’t. That’s what I mean about not understanding about Nazi Germany and Hitler. He may not have done what he should, but when rules were issued, people chose whether to ignore or adapt them without fear of death or concentration camp.

I can't make sense of this Mollygo or exactly what you are replying to.

Why is a party with 36% of the vote able to dictate to us for the foreseeable future ?

This could never happen in a democratic country.

Kali2

And Rees-Mogg and Gove 'come over as authentic' - really ?

Authentic something/s for sure- not printable here.

I used to quite like having the odd British eccentric in Parliament but I never dreamt one day we’d have a government full of them.

sorry - I wish we had a minute to edit on here. I meant 'female' meaning 'women and men who say they are women', in case the wasn't clear.

We don’t know what he stands for but he has promised to change the Gender Recognition Act - making it possible to legally change gender without a medical diagnosis, regardless of the risks for women’s privacy and security.

There are a lot of feminists who bitterly resent this, but can't find a party who will stop the slide towards 'female' being women and men who say they are women' and 'male' being men, with all the traditional advantages that that brings. I think that the cowardice in the face of the trans lobby will undo a lot of politicians (in all parties, including the SNP) when women wake up to what this is likely to mean for them and their daughters. No right to ask for a biologically female doctor in a rape suite, no protection from upskirting cross-dressers in unisex loos, and Trevor from Accounts shooting to the top of the all-female shortlist because he identified as Barbara on the application form.

This is not to say that misgendered people should not be given all the help, support and protection that they need, and treated as members of their transitioned gender when they have transitioned. It does mean that there is a need for lines to be drawn to protect biological women, however, and not to let us sleepwalk into Gilead.

And Rees-Mogg and Gove 'come over as authentic' - really ?

Authentic something/s for sure- not printable here.

Hi Alegrias ??

I think Keir Starmer doesn’t come over as authentic. His opinions can flip flop. He was a Remainer and doesn’t know how to fulfil Brexit. Taking the knee in his office was, for most of the electorate, cringeworthy.

We don’t know what he stands for but he has promised to change the Gender Recognition Act - making it possible to legally change gender without a medical diagnosis, regardless of the risks for women’s privacy and security.

The majority of the voters just don’t care about such issues. We are the silent majority. Which is why the pollsters get it wrong, time after time.

Urmstongran

Well Boris may have lost Cummings but he has Gove and he has Mogg. Two of his personal and professional friends who appear to have their careers long term intertwined with his and have his back. Both great debaters too (like the late Charles Kennedy). Angela Rayner will have her work cut out keeping up with GoveI fear. I feel the Cabinet is less chaos than the media claim.

Sorry UG I'm not stalking you, but...

The only reason Gove has his back is so that he can plunge the knife in at the first opportunity.

Gove is not a great debater, he talks to people as though they are s*** on his shoe and he's explaining it to a slightly slow child. Or is that Rees-Mogg? Much of a muchness.

Mollygo

I find these constant comparisons with Hitler and Nazi Germany both uninformed and distasteful.
Certainly Hitler was voted in in the first place, but the reason he remained in power was because of fear. Are you really claiming that people are voting Tory because they’re afraid not to do so?
In Nazi Germany, commenting like we are allowed to do on here would have meant severe reprisals.
If BJ had the power Hitler had, he could indeed have imposed a tighter lockdown. We would have worn masks and obeyed rules instead of talking about our rights.
It won’t take a war to get rid of the Tory party, but to get Labour back in power, we need more people with realistic ideas, and the courage to state them so that people stop looking back to the last Labour governments and thinking it wouldn’t be any different if they were in power now.
Feel free to disagree, as I’m sure some of you will, and volubly, but did any of you know what it was actually like to live in Nazi Germany?

Excellent post Mollygo ??????

I don’t know how Hitler and the Nazis got brought into this thread, but they are usually brought out on forums when somebody has lost the plot.

Well Boris may have lost Cummings but he has Gove and he has Mogg. Two of his personal and professional friends who appear to have their careers long term intertwined with his and have his back. Both great debaters too (like the late Charles Kennedy). Angela Rayner will have her work cut out keeping up with GoveI fear. I feel the Cabinet is less chaos than the media claim.

Ilovecheese

So getting rid of any left wingers remaining in a supposedly left wing party will really reunify the party and lead to more votes.

My comment was getting rid of Corbyn fans from his Shadow Cabinet, not in the LP.
If he can do that, and keep a softer left approach then he will appeal to a wider voting base.He should stop trying to reunify the party, it can’t be done and he will end up pleasing nobody!
He needs to think about what will get his party actually elected.If the Labour membership shrinks as a result, so what.
Actual voters have their say at a GE.

A reign of terror may often succeed. Let us all hope that is not where our right wing government is taking us

PippaZ no he didn’t. That’s what I mean about not understanding about Nazi Germany and Hitler. He may not have done what he should, but when rules were issued, people chose whether to ignore or adapt them without fear of death or concentration camp.

... but did any of you know what it was actually like to live in Nazi Germany?

Not during the war but my father was posted there immediately at the end of the war and we continued to live there - with a few gaps at home - until I was four in 191953/54. My parents had many German friends after the first few years when they were not allowed to and I was born there - into what had been an almost totally bombed out of existence Hamburg, where the people worked all day and then went home to rebuild their city. We learnt a lot about the people and they were generally still very bemused by what had happened. The lies were so big that it was difficult to believe they were not true.

Germans and people of other countries that put popular leaders into power who subsequently become dictators are no different to us. This can happen anywhere. Letting Johnson off the hook for the failures over Covid is no different to other countries excusing latent dictators.

Not only that but, every time there was a lockdown he gave people enough notice to have a weekend of super spreader events each time. And look what would have happened if he’d had is way over celebrating Christmas for a week! And we’ve got the India variant because he didn’t impose quarantine restrictions on flights from India sooner. So much for taking control of our borders. People have short memories but I won’t forget those things in a hurry.

If BJ had the power Hitler had, he could indeed have imposed a tighter lockdown.

BJ did have the power and he did what he chose to do, i.e., not attend Cobra meetings and not to lock down for some time and then not to keep things tight when we needed it to be so. Hence the very high level of deaths. He is a Liberal at heart and believes we should all - including himself -be able to just as we like. You may accuse others of being uninformed but it would lend a little more truth to those accusations if you yourself were informed.

I find these constant comparisons with Hitler and Nazi Germany both uninformed and distasteful.
Certainly Hitler was voted in in the first place, but the reason he remained in power was because of fear. Are you really claiming that people are voting Tory because they’re afraid not to do so?
In Nazi Germany, commenting like we are allowed to do on here would have meant severe reprisals.
If BJ had the power Hitler had, he could indeed have imposed a tighter lockdown. We would have worn masks and obeyed rules instead of talking about our rights.
It won’t take a war to get rid of the Tory party, but to get Labour back in power, we need more people with realistic ideas, and the courage to state them so that people stop looking back to the last Labour governments and thinking it wouldn’t be any different if they were in power now.
Feel free to disagree, as I’m sure some of you will, and volubly, but did any of you know what it was actually like to live in Nazi Germany?

Purplepixie........BJ got in because the then labour leader was unelectable. He was also a Brexiteer and basically lied about that. The LibDum option was an idiot. She fully intended to ignore the outcome of a second brexit vote if the vote didn't go her way. Sod democracy then.