Queens speech

Regards social care provision. I guess the fundamental problem is that everyone wants what no one wants to pay for. A solution will never be ‘found’, it will have to be imposed. If a government can’t do that when the opposition is underwater then when?

Do remind us about Tower Hamlets, Lin

How many of the allegations (not taken to court on the basis of insufficient evidence) related to in-person voting? Because it is in-person voting fraud that the ID is supposed to prevent.

This is from the 2013 report of the Electoral Commission

Cases relating to alleged postal voting offences accounted for 30% of all cases in Tower Hamlets, compared with just over 11% of cases recorded by forces overall. Cases relating to alleged false or inaccurate electoral register entries accounted for 52% of cases in Tower Hamlets, compared with just over 18% of cases recorded by forces overall. Cases relating to alleged false applications to vote by post accounted for 19% of cases in Tower Hamlets, compared with just over 4% of cases recorded by forces overall.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/Tower-Hamlets-report-2013.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiOmcuY18PwAhUF8eAKHeD6DsEQFjAJegQIGRAC&usg=AOvVaw05h51Z1GZAD7OYWk2GLEtq&cshid=1620807107271

(Apologies for the massive link.)
Now, perhaps I'm missing something, but there appear to have been no allegations of 'personation' at Tower Hamlets, though quite a few relating to postal voting.

So how would voter ID have made any difference in TH?

BTW No charges were ever brought because there wasn't sufficient evidence. I'll remind you that in the UK you are presumed to be innocent until you are proven to be guilty. Well, there is at the moment, but no doubt our populist dictatorship would be happy to change it to a presumption of guilt by media reports until proven innocent.

I agree with Whitewavemark that social care should be accessible like health care via the NHS.

In the real world every efficient care worker , or even school teacher, can take a general 'diagnostic' look at the client or pupil, and communicate with other relevant agencies when needed. In the real world, social care is not separable from health care.

Mamardoit, if you cannot vote without an identity card you may well be discouraged from attending at the polling station. It is already a problem that too few of the electorate turn out to vote.

JaneJudge

social care is generally paid for by local authorities not NHS. Health funding is really difficult to get, even if you qualify

sorry to quote myself
but it is an issue of funding. Social care would be run much more efficiently if they had more money, it really is that simple.

social care is generally paid for by local authorities not NHS. Health funding is really difficult to get, even if you qualify

Given that certain groups in society are declining the vaccine because they think the state is untrustworthy, how do you think they are going to feel about having to apply for photographic ID to exercise a basic democratic right? Do you think they are going to be encouraged to vote by that? And all to avoid something that isn't a problem to begin with.

If you are suspicious of the state because of the way it has treated people like you over decades, are you going to be keen to associate your identity with your voting paper?

Now you can all come on here and say that's not what its about, or it will be easy to apply for, or any other irrelevant thing you can think of, but we should be encouraging people to vote, not making it harder.

Electoral Identity Cards are required in Northern Ireland, according to the application process on The Electoral Office for Northern Ireland they are free and not complicated to apply for.

Chestnut

MaizieD

Urmstongran

Chestnut

Wasn't there a problem with students voting at the home address and also at their university address some time ago. I believe some Labour activists were even encouraging it. If that is happening then it should be stopped.

There was Chestnut. Well remembered!

Poof that it happened?

If you Google 'students voting twice' you will see several articles from the Independent, the Sun, The Daily Mail, The Express and others. It seems some did claim they had voted twice but the extent of abuse was difficult to investigate due to the voting system. It would be more sensible to register them at their home address only, and if they are not there then have a postal vote. I don't believe students should be able to vote at university. They are only temporary residents, they don't live there, and some towns and cities have huge student populations and this will artificially inflate the figures.

Articles in the media are not proof when based on such a vague foundation as 'some students claimed'. Articles in the media are only of evidential value if written by imvestigative journalists who taken time to thoroughly research their subject.

Perhaps you could show me a successful prosecution of a student for dual voting? Even better, (because the dual votes of one or two students isn't going to affect a result) the prosecution and conviction of several hundred dual voting students?

Will people asking what's wrong with voter ID please read MaizieD's article. Because it tells you.

Callistemon

MaizieD

Alegrias1

Good article MaizieD I hope those saying they don't understand the problem with voter id read it.

They won't...

I don't object to ID cards in principle.

We had to produce ID when we went for our vaccines; either a driving licence or passport or a bus pass.
Only older people have bus passes.

I wonder what happened with those who had none of the above?

I didn't show ID for either vaccination. I showed my email, I gave personal data but no physical ID was asked for.

The ID issue and fraud is a total red herring.

With regard to social care it needs to be provided it on NHS terms, which means free at the point of use.

Everyone must contribute and everyone will be provided.

Nothing else will work.

Johnson needs to look at countries like Germany and others who have had the courage to tackle this major and growing issue.

Will this Animal Bill finally sort out illegal fox hunting?

Whitewavemark2

Johnson speech.

Liar!

24 July 2019

“I am announcing now – on the steps of Downing Street – that we will fix the crisis in social care once and for all with a clear plan we have prepared”

The details will be laid out later in the year. Do you realise what a massive undertaking this is, having worked in the NHS for over 30 years, yes it is.

You can get a citizens card but it only lasts for 3 years and is £15

Whitewavemark2

I think that we can safely assume that the introduction of IDs is nothing to do with voter fraud.

Election Maps UK
@ElectionMapsUK
At the 2019 General Election, out of 47,587,254 people voting, there was only 1 conviction of voter fraud (+0 cautions).

That represents 0.0000021014% of votes.

What is wrong with voter ID, many countries have it, including the one my family live in. Those that can’t afford it are given one free. Just because only one has been caught doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Remember Tower Hamlets!!

NHS England will lose its independence from Whitehall, reversing changes made by Lord Lansley, the former Tory health secretary, under the coalition.

The changes are also designed to cut red tape in the NHS and scale back some of the elements of internal competition brought in by the Lansley reforms. Hopefully this will be a good thing.

Getting rid of the fixed Parliament Act is common sense. A government can only call to shorten it’s tenure by so doing not extend it. - so the ballot box can decide whether to recall them or chuck them out.

The redrawing of constituencies for election purposes has been long overdue. It is not gerrymandering.

Well the more I read and think about the trajectory of this government and democracy in our country the more it appears that democracy and civil rights are in retreat, and the more authoritarian the government is becoming.

The freedom to protest against government decisions is being criminalised. We see this sort of criminalisation in countries like Iran or China, how can we let it happen here?

Voting is being made more difficult and certain sections may well be disenfranchised.

Johnson is intending to remove the judiciary’s ability to take the government to task for breaking the law.

Johnson is taking back the ability to decide when to go to the polls.

Gerrymandering in the form of realigning constituency borders is under plan. This is only possible because of the fptp voting system.

Our precious democracy is tottering, we can’t let it be broken.

MaizieD

Urmstongran

Chestnut

Wasn't there a problem with students voting at the home address and also at their university address some time ago. I believe some Labour activists were even encouraging it. If that is happening then it should be stopped.

There was Chestnut. Well remembered!

Poof that it happened?

If you Google 'students voting twice' you will see several articles from the Independent, the Sun, The Daily Mail, The Express and others. It seems some did claim they had voted twice but the extent of abuse was difficult to investigate due to the voting system. It would be more sensible to register them at their home address only, and if they are not there then have a postal vote. I don't believe students should be able to vote at university. They are only temporary residents, they don't live there, and some towns and cities have huge student populations and this will artificially inflate the figures.

I disagreed with it when it was a Labour idea. I'd disagree with it whoever comes up with it. I'll always disagree with it.

I will carry an ID card with me when hell freezes over.

Shinamae

I have a passport but not a driving license and I would be happy to carry an ID card

We could have a microchip implanted at birth

So much easier than having to remember to carry a card.

I just find it odd that it is the view on here that a right wing government is assumed, by generally left-leaning posters, to be taking away our liberties by wanting us to carry ID cards .

In Labour-run Wales ID cards are being required in more and more areas of life, there is a mix of ID required so one system, one card, would be better.

IMO

I have a passport but not a driving license and I would be happy to carry an ID card