Meanwhile, in Scotland....

lemongrove

I am in two minds about ID cards, but could see they may be useful.Since many countries do ask their citizens to either carry them or produce them when requested ( a bit like the police here can do with driving licenses) then how does that work for them? Since quite a few GNers do live abroad, perhaps they could give their thoughts on it?

An ID card is not like a driving licence. The Police would have some trouble asking my mum, for instance, for her driving licence. Lots of GN'ers living overseas have already given their views abut ID cards. They are entitled to those views.

But still, over my dead body.

lemongrove

Alegrias1

Just a bit of clarification on actually what happened with the detention of the two men. The detention was co-ordinated by the Home Office which is a WM, hence UK, organisation. The Police were called to maintain public order, not to assist in the detention as that is not part of their remit. There was no trouble; only peaceful protest.

Its not really fair to say that the English police rode roughshod over the Scottish police. But The Scottish Government have a different view from the current WM government about how immigration law should be implemented.

Yes, this is what I had heard too.Also that the two men had gone into the van with the home office officials compliantly.

Nobody called them ‘scroungers’ or that they didn’t have jobs, but even if they have lived here for years, they are here when they shouldn’t be because they didn’t arrive in the UK to live here permanently, but ended up living under the radar perhaps. They may be allowed to stay or not, but that’s up to the home office.
There was no ‘dawn raid’ ( it was 9.30) it may have been a religious day for Muslim neighbours ( but they are Hindu) and there was no ‘being dragged out of the house’ they went quietly.

They came here legally. They had visas that have expired but have not been able to get anywhere in getting that sorted out, partially because of the pandemic.

They're Sikhs.

Galaxy

If they dont like the look of you

That would be me then.
I am always a person of suspicion at an airport.

I am in two minds about ID cards, but could see they may be useful.Since many countries do ask their citizens to either carry them or produce them when requested ( a bit like the police here can do with driving licenses) then how does that work for them? Since quite a few GNers do live abroad, perhaps they could give their thoughts on it?

Alegrias1

Just a bit of clarification on actually what happened with the detention of the two men. The detention was co-ordinated by the Home Office which is a WM, hence UK, organisation. The Police were called to maintain public order, not to assist in the detention as that is not part of their remit. There was no trouble; only peaceful protest.

Its not really fair to say that the English police rode roughshod over the Scottish police. But The Scottish Government have a different view from the current WM government about how immigration law should be implemented.

Yes, this is what I had heard too.Also that the two men had gone into the van with the home office officials compliantly.

Nobody called them ‘scroungers’ or that they didn’t have jobs, but even if they have lived here for years, they are here when they shouldn’t be because they didn’t arrive in the UK to live here permanently, but ended up living under the radar perhaps. They may be allowed to stay or not, but that’s up to the home office.
There was no ‘dawn raid’ ( it was 9.30) it may have been a religious day for Muslim neighbours ( but they are Hindu) and there was no ‘being dragged out of the house’ they went quietly.

What happens if the authorities decide to take away your ID because you have done something to displease them?

But PippaZ - they have nothing to hide ?

-I know people on here- I know some people on here

Callistemon

^What's wrong with having a compulsory ID card that you have to carry everywhere with you so that the authorities can ask you to prove who you are if they don't like the look of you? Unless you have something to hide?^

Nothing.

1. The people you want to catch will find a way to escape the intrusion. Terrorists and criminals will to be able to obtain them - by legal and illegal means.
2. Their creation wouldn't justify the cost.
3. An ID card system will lead to a slippery slope of surveillance and monitoring of citizens.
4. A national ID card system would require the creation of a database of all citizens.
5. ID cards would function as internal passports that would allow the government to monitor citizens' movements.
6. ID cards would foster new forms of discrimination and harassment.

That is at least some of what is wrong with them - I am staggered that people take their own democratic rights so lightly. I know people on here don't care if others democratic rights are abused but you would think they would care about their own.

If they dont like the look of you

Like I've said somewhere else.... jeezy peeps

Over my dead body.

What's wrong with having a compulsory ID card that you have to carry everywhere with you so that the authorities can ask you to prove who you are if they don't like the look of you? Unless you have something to hide?

Nothing.

Why do people keep saying that as though they've found some deep philosophical argument?

What's wrong with having a camera in your house with a direct link to the Police Station so they can see when you come in and out? Unless you've got something to hide?

What's wrong with having to have your curtains open all day and night for your neighbours and passing police cars to see in, so that everyone can see exactly what you are doing every minute of the day? Unless you have something to hide?

What's wrong with having an ID card identifying your name, age, address etc? Unless you have something to hide?

What's wrong with having a compulsory ID card that you have to carry everywhere with you so that the authorities can ask you to prove who you are if they don't like the look of you? Unless you have something to hide?

See where I'm going with this...?

What’s wrong with ID cards? Unless you’ve got something to hide…? ?

Just a bit of clarification on actually what happened with the detention of the two men. The detention was co-ordinated by the Home Office which is a WM, hence UK, organisation. The Police were called to maintain public order, not to assist in the detention as that is not part of their remit. There was no trouble; only peaceful protest.

Its not really fair to say that the English police rode roughshod over the Scottish police. But The Scottish Government have a different view from the current WM government about how immigration law should be implemented.

When you heard how English police rode roughshod over the Scottish police and their advice there could only be trouble. We will never be able to work as equals while Parliament is for both the English and the UK; it can't work and doesn't work.

I wasn't entirely surprised that the community in Pollockshields were so keen to prevent these two men being deported.

It reminded me of the true story of the Glasgow Girls who successfully prevented their immigrant neighbour from deportation.

lemongrove has responded to a post and made no mention of the fact that it was made by a non British person MayBee.

I didn't see it as being anything other than it was, so why have you? Are we not allowed to comment on another poster's post if they're non British?

lemongrove

Cruel money making machine?!!! Now I have heard it all.

Interesting that a non British making person makes a comment about the situation and you’re straight in there mocking them. Says it all really. No empathy whatsoever.

Whatever your views on immigration surely noone can approve of a force which so misuses power sometimes with no legal backing whatsoever.

Triumph of hope over experience there, trisher?

I agree with you trisher; it's an appalling record. What I don't understand is why so many are happy to be associated with it. It's all incredibly sad.

Whatever your views on immigration surely noone can approve of a force which so misuses power sometimes with no legal backing whatsoever. Immigration Enforcement have been found to have:
Racial bias. Workplace raids are massively skewed towards certain ethnic groups; people from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh account for 75% of all those arrested.
"Low grade" intelligence. While claiming to be "intelligence led", the majority of operations are based on "low grade" tip-offs from "members of the public", classified as "uncorroborated" information from "untested sources" in the official intelligence rating system.
Entry without warrants. In the majority of raids, Immigration Enforcement teams do not in fact have court-issued warrants. A sample carried out by the Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration in December 2015 found that teams had warrants in only 43% of cases. In many other raids, Immigration Officers claimed they had "informed consent" to enter premises. But the Inspector noted numerous irregularities in Immigration Officers' understanding of "consent", and that there was no record keeping to actually demonstrate whether or how consent had been given.
Independent Chief Inspector's criticisms. An earlier 2014 report by the Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration strongly criticised Immigration Enforcement for entering premises without warrants, including doing so unlawfully, and widely abusing the system of "Assistant Directors' Letters" to enter without due legal process.
Abuse of "consensual questioning". The Independent Chief Inspector found that, contrary to legal guidance, raid teams routinely round up and interrogate everyone in a premises, whether or not they are a named suspect. They are only supposed to ask "consensual questions" of people who are not named suspects. However, according to the Inspector, “In the 184 files we sampled there was no record of anyone being ‘invited’ to answer ‘consensual questions’. The files showed that officers typically gathered everyone on the premises together, regardless of the information known or people's actions.”
Not exactly a great record of fair treatment.

might be nearer two per cent, sikhs in india, but are declining.

lemongrove

So, the men were not even Muslim! I did wonder about this since most Indians are either Hindu or Christian.
Which makes all the fuss about religious festivals even more crackers.

there are ten times as many muslims in india as christians.
i believe the men in question were sikhs;
about one per cent of indians are sikh.