Meanwhile, in Scotland....

Urmstongran

4 million out of 70 million people. Not huge by any means. And it will be given out for free so not disenfranchising anyone.

Anyway.
Again we go round in circles.
I wouldn’t mind ID being introduced as in some countries in Europe.
We shall just have to agree to disagree.

We're only going round in circles because you're not reading the facts (sorry, but its true )

4 million out of the electorate, which is about 47 million, not 70 million. Getting on for 9% of them.

Given out free but you have to show up and give your name and details to a government agency. So those most distrustful of the government will have to be supported in the process, to fix something that isn't a problem in the first place. And will have to show ..... och, we've been here before.....

Voter ID isn't the same as an ID card.

I need to see your papers Ms PippaZ. You don't have anything to hide, do you?

"What - you're on Gransnet? That is an illegal organisation, subversive Grannies and a danger to the general public. Off to the Gulag with you!"

4 million out of 70 million people. Not huge by any means. And it will be given out for free so not disenfranchising anyone.

Anyway.
Again we go round in circles.
I wouldn’t mind ID being introduced as in some countries in Europe.
We shall just have to agree to disagree.

Actual extract from the actual report quoted; 9% of people don't have usable ID. Selective quoting of statistics by Baron M there.

5 times as many people as he says would have to get a way of sourcing new photo id . So actually about 4 million people, more than we previously thought....

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/984918/Photographic_ID_research-_headline_findings_report.pdf

a recent Cabinet Office study suggests that 98 per cent of the electorate already has such ID. Any voter without passport, photographic driving licence, concessionary badge or Blue Badge will be allowed to get a free elector card from the local authority, so the requirements do not seem excessively bureaucratic or onerous.

Well I thought it explained the numbers involved for all those up thread who railed at the cost of it all.

"From Alegrias1
"I'm a sensible, fair minded person who doesn't write for the Tory Party House newspaper"

??? made me laugh out loud!

Knock knock.

I need to see your papers Ms PippaZ. You don't have anything to hide, do you?

?

It will lead not I will in my last post. Hopefully "they" see the correction and there are no knocks at the door

About as sensible and fair minded as Genghis Khan

I looked up the fair minded and sensible Charles Moore (aka Baron Moore of Etchingham, elevated to the HoL by one Boris Johnson last year).

Climate change denier, Brexit supporter, same sex marriage opponent, who said Olivia Colman's face was "too left wing" for her to play the Queen.

It was Alegrias. Isn't it a shame you can't see others mouths turn up at the corner as you say it

I agree that it is the silliest of arguments. I will lead to some people going off-grid and if Johnson continues going to the far-right he won't have just people's votes to worry about.

PippaZ

Alegrias1

But PippaZ - they have nothing to hide ?

I know where you are coming from but I would say that I also have nothing to hide Alegrias but my nothing is mine to do with as I will - not the governments

I hope my sarcasm was evident PippaZ

"Nothing to hide" is the least convincing argument of this whole thing. I don't agree with that view at all.

UG posts

"From the Telegraph today. Charles Moore.I think he’s a sensible, fair minded chap."

About as sensible and fair minded as Genghis Khan

Alegrias1

But PippaZ - they have nothing to hide ?

I know where you are coming from but I would say that I also have nothing to hide Alegrias but my nothing is mine to do with as I will - not the governments

people’s perception of the security of the polling station process

If you tell people you are introducing new measures to make something more secure, they will perceive that the measures make the process more secure.

If, however, you were to tell them that there were negligible instances of people impersonating others at the ballot box, and that the measures will discourage a proportion of people from registering to vote at all, then you can expect a different result.

The implications of already-disenfranchised people having another barrier put in their way before they can vote have been dealt with by other posters, so I'm not going into that again.

From Alegrias, today.
I'm a sensible, fair minded person who doesn't write for the Tory Party house newspaper.

“This is the context for the new law. It will restrict the numbers of proxy votes that one person can handle, get rid of the freedom to keep a postal vote for life (making people reapply every three years) and insist on photo ID.

The last is the most controversial. It is being alleged that up to 3.5 million people will not have the photo ID required, but a recent Cabinet Office study suggests that 98 per cent of the electorate already has such ID. Any voter without passport, photographic driving licence, concessionary badge or Blue Badge will be allowed to get a free elector card from the local authority, so the requirements do not seem excessively bureaucratic or onerous.

Even the Electoral Commission, reporting on the two recent ID pilot schemes of 2018 and 2019, admitted that “the experience of taking part in the pilot scheme appears to have had a positive impact on people’s perception of the security of the polling station process, and on their confidence in it”. That makes psychological sense: if you think a system is secure and accurate, you can be confident voting is worthwhile.”

From the Telegraph today. Charles Moore.
I think he’s a sensible, fair minded chap.

What do we need ID cards for Lemongrove? What do we actually need them for that we can't do already? Because the burden of proving that they are required would be on the government. Nothing nebulous, nothing half hearted please. What are the benefits of ID cards that over ride their implications for privacy?
And saying that other countries have them doesn't cut it.

It’s all we have Aleg but I would take their word over anyone elses in the circumstances.

Granny23

There is more to this than has been detailed above.

1) This was the UK Home Office throwing their weight around and obviously doing this provocatively by choosing the early morning of Eid to make their move.

2) The Scottish Government and the majority of Scottish residents, encourage and welcome immigrants but the powers re immigration are reserved for Westminster.

3) A neighbour spent the day lying between the wheels of the van to prevent the officials driving away. I call that heroic.

4) The Police were in attendance but no arrests were made, no one was injured. Therefore a spontaneous, peaceful protest, with direct action, not illegal currently, but will be soon when new legislation is in place. I say "Power to the people"

I was heartened by this action in Glasgow. As a Scot living in England, I am aware of the politics of Independence, and have my views on it and the SNP which are not relevant here, but I was truly delighted to see a community standing up to the draconian acts of the Home Office.

Your? Their?

That sentence makes no sense at all....but you know what I mean.

They're not blaming anybody or anything, for anything. Its a fact that the lengthy process of having your application for a renewed visa has been negatively impacted by the pandemic.

Your faith in the Home Office is touching.

You don’t seem to have any time for the Police Aleg there is more to policing than ‘hassling people’ and it’s curious that a mature person has this view of them.Or are you a teenager??

If they are blaming Covid for not being able to get things sorted out ( they have overstayed by years then, according to other posts) then that would be taken into consideration when looking at their case.) We know very little about it, but the Home Office does.

Qualms about having them? PippaZ, 14:15. That's why they're a bad idea.

Still haven't seen why we should have them anyway, except to let the police hassle people they don't like the look of.

I didn’t say ID cards were like driving licenses, but that police had a right to see them.I haven’t seen any views on ID cards from anyone who lives abroad, so will scroll back a bit to see them.
Overall, I have no real qualms about having to have one.