Universal basic income

well if it would pay carers more than £67.60 a week, that would be progress.

The tax system would have to ensure that everyone paid their share which, I believe, would mean a readjustment on unearned income. One of the suggestions is that, with UBI payments, you drop the Personal Tax Allowance and each person gets something more like £240 a week. All income-related benefits would go and there is even an argument that some other benefits would go.

The challenge would be housing but we have long needed to readdress social housing.

For those who haven't seen them these are the five characteristics of Basic Income:

1. Periodic—It is paid at regular intervals (for example every month), not as a one-off grant.

2. Cash payment—It is paid in an appropriate medium of exchange, allowing those who receive it to decide what they spend it on. It is not, therefore, paid either in kind (such as food or services) or in vouchers dedicated to a specific use.

3. Individual—It is paid on an individual basis—and not, for instance, to households.

4. Universal—It is paid to all, without means test.

5. Unconditional—It is paid without a requirement to work or to demonstrate willingness to work.

That article seems ambivalent at best about employment.

A two year trial in Finland found that Universal Basic Income seems to improve employment and well-being

Read more: www.newscientist.com/article/2242937-universal-basic-income-seems-to-improve-employment-and-well-being/#ixzz6uwf4oszH

The issue is the level at which UBI would be set. The pre-Covid level of just over £73 per week for the unemployment element of UB was ridiculous. It needs to be at least double, but then people who really don't need the money would be receiving almost £150pw. On the other hand, it's nowhere near enough for people with housing costs. Maybe it could be reclaimed through the tax system.

The only way to find out is to trial it, so the results of anything done in Wales will be interesting.

icanhandthemback:

It has been trialled in other countries without a great deal of success. On paper it looks like a wonderful idea but in practise it is very expensive without the benefits one would assume it would bring.

Your opinion icanhandthemback; certainly not the one all countries/states have found. Some of the so-called trials have not been for UBI they are more like the introduction of a benefits system where one currently doesn't exist and they certainly have their drawbacks.

Antonia You might find I feel this site basicincome.org/ interesting. Many countries/states are looking at it because of the pandemic.

In the trials I have read about there is no greater disincentive to work than we have now. The groups not working, when the IBU is enough to live on, includes parents - often mothers - of very young children and those training for a career change.

I agree Ilovecheese How will we know without trialling it? Strangely enough, the rich with sufficient to live on without working have been making life-changing decisions or going into more vocational work that pays less (ladies and their charities) for centuries and this has never been castigated as shirking.

Tony Blair has written a very interesting article in the New Statesman this week. In it he says:

A myriad of small firms and the self-employed will be central not peripheral to the future.

It is the same with public services. The way we teach and provide medical care and education will change dramatically, and therefore old ways of working will decline.

It is my opinion that IBU could be an extremely good way of underpinning the changes that will come. Working with them seems to be better than working against them.

The current Benefits system is certainly not fit for purpose. It is wasteful, often doesn't solve the issues it is trying to address, and rarely if ever solves them quickly enough. Although IBU can seem expensive I wonder if it is, particularly if you cost it over time.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/tony-blair-without-total-change-labour-will-die

Without a proper trial, how will we find out.

For one thing, some people see it as a disincentive to look for work but others think t is an incentive to be more entrepreneurial without being put off by the huge financial risk, because the basic income will be there.

A proper trial is probably the best way to find an answer about universal basic income. Opinions vary and are sometimes just based on feelings instead of evidence. Unless we try it, we will never discover whether it is a good idea or not.

It has been trialled in other countries without a great deal of success. On paper it looks like a wonderful idea but in practise it is very expensive without the benefits one would assume it would bring.
The system we have now disincentives people from working and is very stressful for those who have no choice but to claim. I'm not sure what the answer is. The tax credits system should be scrapped immediately. It never ends well for those who rely on it as mistakes always seem to be made which end up with people having to pay back huge amounts. I haven't met anybody yet who hasn't had this problem. Despite giving all the correct information at the time circumstances changed, my daughter is currently paying a debt off which stands at £3000. She is disabled and her benefits come from one source, the tax credits from another and they just don't do joined up thinking. It is a nightmare.