The Irish Question revisited

Anniel

Well I voted to leave and am perfectly in charge of my faculties. It is obvious that this country divided over the issue of leaving. Most of the metropolitan elite and well educated and have good jobs or own homes in the EU voted to remain. They will never stop trying to get the UK back into the EU. The latest scramble by Andrew Mitchell et al over overseas aid was one example and the border issues now over NI see the EU caring more about their petty rules than the Good Friday agreement. Few of you seem to notice that EU members bend rules all the time.Some borders with countries outside the Union are quite porous and if you stroll around markets in France you will see the rules broken over cooked and raw meat all the time. If I was Boris I would show Macron we mean business by immediately stopping pâté de fois gras and other meats cruelly killed from coming to UK. The EU exports more goods to us than we do to them and imagine if we stopped importing French wines and German cars, they would suffer. I do agree that NI is a knotty problem but there are means and ways if the EU would not be so sclerotic. I hope Scotland takes note that if they leave the Union then their exports into England would suffer and once the Barnett formula finance stops, then they will be very poor. Sorry to go on but obviously some of you take every opportunity to criticise Conservative government but you should understand that Gransnet is a broad church. I am a proud member of the Conservative party!

If both sides in an agreement decide to change the rules then that is fair enough. If one side signs up to an agreement and then decides to ignore the rules it is something else.

In simple numbers they might export more to us than we do to them but as a percentage it is the other way round so will have more of an impact on us.

Alioop

theworriedwell you come over here anytime and I'll make you an Ulster Fry. I'll get ingredients for it at my local butcher's so there's no problems

That sounds tempting. I grew up in England, when any of the family went home they came back with a suitcase of ingredients for an Ulster Fry.

My gran had a B&B in Bangor, when she came to England she was bemused that her counterparts advertised they did a full English, she didn't think that was something to advertise. She had some very funny sayings and was a real character but I do fancy a proper Ulster fry.

So true Greyduster.

It would tidy things up admirably if they could be persuaded to join up with the RoI. Sorted.

It wouldn’t for the Republic of Ireland either - they want neither the political hassle nor the expense.

It’s nothing to do with punishing the U.K. The EU has rules and legally has to uphold them, in the same way we have different rules, we chose to leave and should have known what would happen.

Leavers were told repeatedly before the referendum and dismissed it as 'project fear' and now they call it 'EU bullying'. There is no penetrating the rhinocerus hide created by constant repetition of simplistic messaging.

“First let me make the argument to all the intelligentsia who “sensibly” voted to remain. I remain unconvinced by the attitude of the EU, who are determined to punish us for leaving the EU”

It’s nothing to do with punishing the U.K. The EU has rules and legally has to uphold them, in the same way we have different rules, we chose to leave and should have known what would happen.
Of course it would have damaged the leave campaign if they had told the truth and voters knew what they were voting for.

nadateturbe exactly. How would things be sorted by joining ROI, sorted for Brexit probably, but not for the loyalist side of N.Ireland's population who want to be part of UK.

It would tidy things up admirably if they could be persuaded to join up with the RoI. Sorted.

I don't think it would sort it for the loyalist population. I don't see a solution to be honest.

Yorki

I believe Boris Is doing a brilliant job regarding the EU, it's always been one rule for them and another for us it got stupid. We should never have joined it in the first place. That was the biggest mistake, not what Boris is doing now. I like him, it's about time Britain grew a back bone.

Well, good for you! Brave (and empty) words indeed!

I believe Boris Is doing a brilliant job regarding the EU, it's always been one rule for them and another for us it got stupid. We should never have joined it in the first place. That was the biggest mistake, not what Boris is doing now. I like him, it's about time Britain grew a back bone.

vegansrock

I don’t know why the Brexit voters constantly criticise the “metropolitan elite” , when it includes Johnson and most of the current cabinet .

Brainwashing! It's become a mantra.

First let me make the argument to all the intelligentsia who “sensibly” voted to remain. I remain unconvinced by the attitude of the EU, who are determined to punish us for leaving the EU. Have you noticed the way goods come into the largest port in the EU which is Rotterdam? Those goods get three times less checking as they arrive than goods going into NI from UK. Why is that? Just how patriotic are some of you? The EU has no intention of putting the Good Friday Agreement before this petty rules is rules argument. It is also a fact that we give more foreign aid that either France, the Netherlands or Italy. Look up the figures….I have. So I am sure given the choice of becoming independent and joining Eire in the EU the Northern Ireland electorate will choose to remain in the UK. Do the maths. Catholic voters would have voted remain, those Protestants with good jobs and holiday homes in Europe would also be tempted to remain. You cannot have it both ways. NI keeps telling us they want to stay in the UK and as leavers are a majority we are intelligent to recognise how the Scots remainers and those in UK will keep carping on hoping that we will return to the EU fold. I hope you go and live in the EU and be happy because we will not be rejoining and I see little chance of Keir Starmer winning the next election. Why do Labour lose? Because they are no longer the party of the old working class. Tony Blair changed all that. At 87 late this month I don’t think the electorate will change their minds at the next election. So you can insult us leavers all you like. It will make no difference.

varian

And since this thread is about the Irish question, just lets remind everyone that the majority of voters in NI voted to Remain in the EU.

It would tidy things up admirably if they could be persuaded to join up with the RoI. Sorted.

latest scramble by Andrew Mitchell et al over overseas aid was one example

I don't quite understand what connection overseas aid has with the EU, Anniel.

and the border issues now over NI see the EU caring more about their petty rules than the Good Friday agreement.

The point continually made is that a hard Brexit and the Good Friday Agreement were never going to be compatible. Hard Brexit requires a border between the EU (Republic of Ireland) and Britain (Northern Ireland). The Good Friday Agreement depends on there NOT being a border between NI and RoI. It cannot be done with a 'hard' Brexit. What is so very difficult to understand about this?
And it is you Brexiters who insisted you wanted a 'hard' Brexit, so why expect the EU to solve the problem you have caused?

No amount of shouting about the evil EU not caring about the GFA is going to change this. It wasn't the EU at all. We were warned and warned and warned that the two weren't compatible. Now you Brexiters are like spoilt children who can't get their own way.

Few of you seem to notice that EU members bend rules all the time.Some borders with countries outside the Union are quite porous and if you stroll around markets in France you will see the rules broken over cooked and raw meat all the time.

Well, you see, when you are IN the club you can break a rule or two but if you leave it you no longer get given any leeway. WTF did you expect? Everything to go on just as it has since the inception of the Single Market?

But I'm really not sure what 'EU rules' about the juxtaposition of raw and cooked meats are in force. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

And tell us about those 'porous borders', please. Where are they?

Johnson is a national embarrassment. A proven liar who wants to renege on an international treaty.

No amount of photo opportunities can cover up this country's disgrace,.

Ah! Johnson & his Gang of Brexiteers:

"Never has so much been promised, and so little delivered by so few"

His narrative for his politics of performance is undermining the reputation and disrespects the people of the UK at every opportunity. His use of 3-word slogans and florid language disguises well his lack of knowledge of this country, its regions, its diversity and its culture.

As a member of the English Westminster Elite - bourgeoise if you prefer - he is never going to understand the everyday.

And since this thread is about the Irish question, just lets remind everyone that the majority of voters in NI voted to Remain in the EU.

"Most of the metropolitan elite and well educated and have good jobs or own homes in the EU voted to remain." says "Anniel*

Maybe most of these folk did vote Remain, but in the same way as most of the stupid, poorly educated, ill-informed readers of the right wing gutter press who voted Leave were not the majority of Leave voters these "Metropoilitan elite" were only a minority of Remain voters.

Many, like me were not part of any "metropolitan elite" but ordinary sensible intelligent folk who, being intelligent and well educated, looked at all of the available evidence and came to the obvious conclusion that it would be an unmitigated disaster for the UK to leave the EU.

And all the evidence of subsiquent events proves that we were right.

I know some of the posters on here will clearly have known what the details and practical impacts of implementing the Withdrawal Agreement, and the equally detailed impact of the Northern Ireland Protocol. Clearly the Brexiteers and their MPs will have fully understood this.

What I cannot understand is why, having signed this agreement - in writing - the Government and its supporters do not seem to understand that Northern Ireland is still in the single market. That was what was agreed.

The rules of operation mean quite simply that any 3rd party country wishing to export into the EU's single market needs to abide by the rules - the UK SIGNED UP TO THIS.

Kali2 - I loved that Brexiteer in a caravan on QT last night - he has left everyone stunned, flummoxed and bamboozled - his level of knowledge and/or understanding is ZERO. Thanks for posting the link - it was a great laugh.

I don’t know why the Brexit voters constantly criticise the “metropolitan elite” , when it includes Johnson and most of the current cabinet .

Well said Annie ????????

Well I voted to leave and am perfectly in charge of my faculties. It is obvious that this country divided over the issue of leaving. Most of the metropolitan elite and well educated and have good jobs or own homes in the EU voted to remain. They will never stop trying to get the UK back into the EU. The latest scramble by Andrew Mitchell et al over overseas aid was one example and the border issues now over NI see the EU caring more about their petty rules than the Good Friday agreement. Few of you seem to notice that EU members bend rules all the time.Some borders with countries outside the Union are quite porous and if you stroll around markets in France you will see the rules broken over cooked and raw meat all the time. If I was Boris I would show Macron we mean business by immediately stopping pâté de fois gras and other meats cruelly killed from coming to UK. The EU exports more goods to us than we do to them and imagine if we stopped importing French wines and German cars, they would suffer. I do agree that NI is a knotty problem but there are means and ways if the EU would not be so sclerotic. I hope Scotland takes note that if they leave the Union then their exports into England would suffer and once the Barnett formula finance stops, then they will be very poor. Sorry to go on but obviously some of you take every opportunity to criticise Conservative government but you should understand that Gransnet is a broad church. I am a proud member of the Conservative party!

Totally agree

Lin52

theworriedwell

MaizieD

If we put ourselves in a position where we are desperate for a trade deal with the US then we grovel to them.

I really don't understand why the people who voted to cut the UK adrift from its biggest trading partner and elected the world's foremost narcissistic liar to do the job are complaining. They are getting what they voted for. A diminished and demeaned country.

Shame for the rest of us though.

Perhaps the lovers of the EU should read this, very interesting how we were, with the collusion of the USA, taken into a Federalistic Europe by Heath. Evidence taken from public records. ]]
I voted no in both referendums.

Lin52 That'll be the book by David Barnby whose “research” is so reliable that he had to self-publish his book because even the right-wing anti-EU think tanks wouldn't publish it because of the idiocy?

Brexit added on extra cost for materials, but the checks here in N.Ireland have made it a real headache to get them cos of the checks. We wait weeks on stuff to arrive now, a plank of wood I paid £1.50 for last summer, to replace this summer £3.10! That's not just a small increase, people are getting quotes from builders and are shocked. I think it's more than Brexit that is the problem, the cost of checks at docks, etc hasn't helped. Some things I used to get now don't even deliver to N.Ireland, even if the company uses Royal Mail, they won't post here. That's not Brexit, we are UK.
Sorry this went off the main thread, it was only one example what a pain in the bum all this is over here.