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The Irish Question revisited

(255 Posts)
varian Wed 09-Jun-21 19:39:28

Brexit minister accuses EU of 'legal purism' over NI Protocol

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57378954

Presumable "legal purism" means keeping to your word and not reneging on a legal agreement you recently negotiated and signed.

The fact is that it was always going to be impossible to abide by the Good Friday Agreement and not have a border on the island of Ireland, whilst the Republic of Ireland remained in the EU but the UK left the EU and the Single Market, without having a border somewhere and if that border is not on the island of Ireland it has to be in the Irish Sea.

Many of us foresaw problems in NI because of Brexit years ago. Why could the Vote Leave Tory Government and the DUP not see what was blindingly obvious to us?

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1242729-The-Irish-question?pg=22

varian Tue 17-May-22 21:12:47

As predicted Johnson looks about to renege on an jnternational treaty - his very own "oven ready " brexit deal which won him 43% of the votes at the last election and gave him his huge 80 seat majority in the HoC.

nadateturbe Fri 18-Jun-21 20:10:33

Sorry I should have said Irish Language legislation.
Yes SF won't nominate a DFM if the legislation isn't implemented. The system of government really is unworkable.

Alioop Fri 18-Jun-21 18:09:25

SF won't sit in Westminster, but ran to Brandon Lewis when they wanted the Irish language implemented and if he didn't they would of brought down Stormont. Who's blackmailing Westminster now confused

nadateturbe Fri 18-Jun-21 15:08:28

Alioop is correct. The rights of all groups are important. But right now we need to concentrate on what takes priority. SF say that health, housing etc take priority but only if they have the Irish legislation implemented. So, what is their priority?
As I have said I am not a great supporter of DUP but I don't think the quote about Poots is funny.

Alioop Fri 18-Jun-21 14:48:28

gringringrin

Whitewavemark2 Fri 18-Jun-21 13:52:39

Love this quote

“Potty Poots lasted about the same length of time as he thinks the world has existed”

Alioop Fri 18-Jun-21 11:40:16

Katie59 blackmail Westminster.

It's the very place where decisions are made and not followed through. You seem to have more of a problem with the DUP than any other party, but it's not just one party to blame here, it's all of them. They all walked out of Stormont for years and got bloomin good wages for doing nothing for their voters, no decisions could be made. This country will always have it's problems as long as there are the "two flags flying" and most of us just deal with it, but when promises are broken by idiot politicians it's not on. No country would stand for it, so why should we here in N.I, are we not allowed to stand up for our rights and have a voice.

nadateturbe Fri 18-Jun-21 09:05:53

Katie59 Foster said it was a bad idea. Its not her decision. Yes, we need cooperation in Stormont..from ALL parties.
The blame for the mess we are in is not down to one party. Its a system of government that supports sectarianism.
We need to set aside border issues for now. People need schools jobs doctors etc. Those who say these issues are their priority should prove it.

Katie59 Fri 18-Jun-21 07:51:41

“Some might want rid of N.I just to make it a bit easier, but is it fair on N.I citizens who want to stay part of UK? No.”

I’ll vote for that!. NI would be far better off in every way without the sectarianism, having lost the ability to blackmail Westminster, Stormont has got has to get its act together and cooperate. As for wanting to stay part of the UK, Foster refused a referendum on that topic, so we don’t know what the majority of NI voters want.

Alioop Fri 18-Jun-21 01:59:16

The idiotic politians need to sort out their priorities. The health service is in a mess and was long before Covid and now they have to catch up which will take years. It is our brilliant NHS though and we only have this free service because we are part of UK and for that I'm thankful. In party fighting and an Irish language are not needed at this moment, more hospitals, doctors and nurses are. They need to get a grip and stop messing with peoples lives just to point score against " the other side".

nadateturbe Thu 17-Jun-21 23:11:37

Poots resignation was a result of the deal agreed to implement the Irish Language act. People are unhappy as SF had refused to nominate a DFM if their demand wasn't met. This would have meant an election which we can't afford at the minute - Our health service is a shambles. We deserve better than this. I think the assembly should concentrate on important issues and leave their differences aside for now.

Alioop Thu 17-Jun-21 23:08:25

Why break it down saying N.I wanted to stay in EU. We are part of UK, whether some like it or not, who as a whole decided to leave. We left, it's done, lies told, promises broken and now it's down to Boris to sort out the shambles it has caused. Some might want rid of N.I just to make it a bit easier, but is it fair on N.I citizens who want to stay part of UK? No.

nadateturbe Thu 17-Jun-21 22:43:15

DUP aren't the only unionist party in NI. Unionists voted for other unionist parties. The point I made was that the UK as a whole voted to leave.

Kali2 Thu 17-Jun-21 21:18:18

Not happy at the DUP! Poots has resigned - what???

varian Thu 17-Jun-21 20:49:09

nadateturbe

The majority of unionists in NI voted to leave.

Unionists do not represent the majority in NI any more than conservatives represent the majority in UK.

In the last general election most NI voters voted AGAINST the DUP and most GB voters voted AGAINST the conservatives.

We do not live in a democracy

theworriedwell Thu 17-Jun-21 20:26:38

moggie57

have they asked northern ireland what they would like to do? stay in gb or be in the EU? i think its totally up to them .

Well Johnson doesn't seem keen on Scotland getting the choice, do you think he'd be any keener on NI.

nadateturbe Thu 17-Jun-21 20:25:01

The majority of unionists in NI voted to leave.

varian Thu 17-Jun-21 19:34:18

Would you not say that the voters in England, Scotland and Wales probably had less of an understanding of the implications of brexit on NI.?

One of the most ludicrous statements which I have heard often repeated over the last five years is "we knew exactly what we were voting for"

Really???????

nadateturbe Thu 17-Jun-21 19:24:18

...and England.

nadateturbe Thu 17-Jun-21 19:23:02

NI voted as part of the UK, same as Wales and Scotland.

varian Thu 17-Jun-21 18:56:17

The people of NI were asked that in 2016 and they wanted to remain in the EU.

moggie57 Thu 17-Jun-21 16:41:49

have they asked northern ireland what they would like to do? stay in gb or be in the EU? i think its totally up to them .

Katie59 Tue 15-Jun-21 21:55:42

“This is even clearer from today, as we have signed an agreement with OZ- with very different standards. So meat could come in from OZ, be made into sausages in the UK, and then go on to NI and possibly on to the EU via Eire, by the 'back open door'. It is all very simple.”

No, not as raw sausages, possibly as a cooked meat product, imported ingredients have to be declared and tarriff, if any applied to them, that is detailed in the “Withdrawl Agreement”.
Nothing to stop us consuming imports, importing Australian Meat to make pies to send to the EU is one example, there are many others

Kali2 Tue 15-Jun-21 21:18:14

oooohhhhh up to 1.22 says another source. Wow.

Kali2 Tue 15-Jun-21 20:48:45

Oh I made a massive mistake here. Not 2 quid, about 50p. Don't spend it all at once I say.