One law for football fans?

dragonfly46

The First Minister has just announced that she is banning all travel to Manchester from Monday. How can she be able to do this but not stop football fans with no tickets travelling to London?

We use this word "ban" a lot, don't we?

From Monday all non-essential travel to Manchester from Scotland is "not permitted". If some misguided soul wants to go, they still will, rules or not. Same as some people went to London when they were asked not to. Same as the people who flew up to Glasgow for a weekend with the family when travel into Glasgow was not allowed.

I think olddudders is trying to wind us up. Otherwise why would he think that Boris had anything to do with a football competition where one of the venues is in Azerbaijan?

Galaxy

And as for Rugby not causing any problems, you might want to look at some of the appalling behaviour of some rugby players towards women, it makes fairly distressing reading.

I lived for many years very near Twickenham. Our favourite Indian restaurant was in that town. We made the mistake once of eating there on a rugby day and some rugby supporters were in there, they were appallingly rude to staff, quite drunk and sweary, it wasn't a very nice experience. There used to be a lap dancing club in the town on the high street, close to a residential area and schools. Around that immediate area it was particularly bad when there had been a big match. Lots of complaints from residents thankfully got the dive closed down. Delighted about that! However, would add that no doubt the rowdies are a small minority and the vast majority, as with football supporters give the rest a bad name.

"Do English fans behave badly?" Sure they do and how embarrassing that is when they do that particularly in another country. They disgrace us all.

I feel there should have been no travelling to London, whether with tickets or not, it was totally foolhardy to allow it during the present circumstances. In fact, I think the Euros shouldn't have gone ahead at all.

I agree, Marydoll.
I suppose it was thought we might be on top of the Covid crisis by now and everywhere could start to open up again, but this could just prolong it.

Perhaps this is worth reposting:

The Duke of Cambridge is President of the English FA. Does that make him a prole?

I am with you, Maddyone, totally confused. Max 30 people meeting outdoors, masks and social distancing for you and me but if you attend a sporting event rules no longer apply. Why?

I feel there should have been no travelling to London, whether with tickets or not, it was totally foolhardy to allow it during the present circumstances. In fact, I think the Euros shouldn't have gone ahead at all.
I'm sure we will see an increase in Covid numbers in the next few weeks.
However, it's all about making money and an easy life for the politicians.

I am ashamed of the behaviour of some of my fellow countrymen, but to tar ALL with the same brush is ridiculous.

As for your generalisation, Oldudders : But politicians know it keeps the proles happy, and Scots fans in London have always been drunk and disorderly is totally offensive and unaceptable and smacks of anti Scottish sentiments.
Do English fans never behave badly?

Not all Scots fans visiting London, behave in a disorderly manner, your comment says more about you , than it does about them.

Definition of prole from The Cambridge dictionary:

prole
noun [ C ] UK informal
UK /prəʊl/ US /proʊl/

an insulting word for a person from a low social class; a short form of "proletarian"

My husband was in London in 1977, at the Scotland England game, (which I think you may be referring to) , he was a senior officer in Local Government and wouldn't have considered behaving in a disorderly manner and neither would his colleagues, who were with him. They would have put their careers in jeopardy if they did.

25Avalon

Women and girls play rugby and football too! The FA have an even Steven’s game whereby young players of whatever sex get an equal amount of game time.

Fancy women and girls lowering themselves like that!

DD used to play girls' rugby, rather surprisingly as she was a very slender little girl.

And as for Rugby not causing any problems, you might want to look at some of the appalling behaviour of some rugby players towards women, it makes fairly distressing reading.

Women and girls play rugby and football too! The FA have an even Steven’s game whereby young players of whatever sex get an equal amount of game time.

JenniferEccles

Yes up to a point Callistemon
but other sports don’t feature as heavily as football does.

I guess it’s cost.

Not on TV certainly but certainly there is more choice here.
I don't think a young rugby player would find himself in the minority here.

Mmm - and I'd like to sing in church but clearly that's the wrong religion - singing at football is allowed!?..

Ashcombe

IMHO, in his original post, olddudders used the term proles as a way of describing the way the general public is regarded by the current government.

His posts were altogether disdainful and he said that you felt the same disdain.
Perhaps he should not have spoken for you, Ashcombe when he said women footballers were lowering themselves etc.

There is never very much on TV in the summer months and there are plenty of channels to choose from anyway.
Football is an extremely popular sport around the world.
I agree that perhaps it should not have taken place this year and I do believe there is a loutish element that follow football but that is not the majority.
Reporters will always pick out the worst element and publicise it.

Yes up to a point Callistemon
but other sports don’t feature as heavily as football does.

I guess it’s cost.

Any small boy who didn’t like football would find himself in the minority, and as we all know, children have a strong desire to fit in, to be accepted as one of the crowd.
I don't think that's the case here; there are (or were) lots of sports on offer in our area; rugby is just as popular as soccer.

A lot went to judo and karate when my DC were small.
Some boys and men play hockey, it's not just for girls!
DS was a keen tennis player and that is still popular too.

IMHO, in his original post, olddudders used the term proles as a way of describing the way the general public is regarded by the current government.

Another question. Should this football match have been hosted at venues in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, English supporters allocated 3,000 tickets, would it have been possible for Boris to ensure only ticketed fans would travel? I doubt any FM/PM has such special powers.

Any gatherings of large crowds during a pandemic is madness!

olddudders. Time to read up on the history of football hooliganism to present day if you really must insist on shaming one nation from your high horse. Describing people as proles is particularly nasty.

I have often wondered if there is an element of conformity going on around football, a conformity which starts with boys in early childhood.

Any small boy who didn’t like football would find himself in the minority, and as we all know, children have a strong desire to fit in, to be accepted as one of the crowd.

This pretence could continue into adulthood, depending on the peer group (and work environment).

The vast majority of males in my family have no interest whatsoever in football, but some follow ( and play) golf, cricket and tennis.

I wish other sports featured more heavily in schools then possibly this obsession with football would lessen.

I hatr being referred to as a Prole, serf or anything like that.

The Goverment makes the rules, yes, but I also take responsibility for myself, make my own decisions and decide what I like and what I dont.
I am tired that as we like football as a family and we watch football on the television, we are associated with anti social behaviour. Most football fans are well behaved, as with everything else the few make it bad for the majority. Anyway I have got everything done so we can watch the France V Hungary game.
Anyway this thread has reminded me to to ring Sky and BT sport to see if I can get the cost of my my sports channel down once competition ends and there is no Prem league footie until August.

To be honest, I’m confused. The Covid restrictions, such as they are, are still in place until 19th July, but I constantly see on news programmes huge crowds of people attending various sporting events. As well as the football yesterday, we had Ascot throughout last week. I (or you) can’t meet in a park or garden with more than 30 people, and I haven’t done. And if we do meet other people, we’re advised to socially distance. But if I wanted to go to the match yesterday, or Ascot last week, it would have been okay to mix freely and closely with hundreds of other people. I’m utterly confused by this situation.

I agree Callistemon. I have been quite optimistic since I had the second vaccine but it seems we are going backwards which is very worrying.

It's all just such a mess, isn't it dragonfly.
Not this in particular, but the patchwork of rules, the ad hoc decisions.

The First Minister has just announced that she is banning all travel to Manchester from Monday. How can she be able to do this but not stop football fans with no tickets travelling to London?

Football does seem to attract a certain type of anti social element. Not just Scottish folk, but some England supporters in Porto recently were badly behaved, no-one is saying all football fans behave like this, but you have to concede some do.

There were 27 arrests before we are over critical of the police. There have been so many protests, marches, crowds on beaches etc that everyone thinks they can do it. Fortunately not many get drunk and strip off naked as happened yesterday. As it was limited ticket entry there wasn’t a great deal of point in their coming except to support their teams. I don’t know exactly how it could have been stopped tbh. The players themselves on high salaries have often broken covid rules so not set a good example, not that that would have made much difference.

I am a bit cynical. Grass roots football is great for getting everyone in the community involved, but as soon as spectators are involved you tend to get problems. Fans refuse to social distance, refuse to wear masks, refuse to follow the one way system for the loo, and unless you have plenty of staff which is unlikely as they are all volunteers, are difficult to police. We run a ladies football team and quite frankly we’re glad when spectators were banned. That’s not to say all fans are bad because they aren’t.

As for being a snob - born in a tied cottage with no bathroom or loo, and spending 38 years working in the railway industry, with everyday people of all sorts of cultures and ethnicities, hardly befits me to see myself as superior, does it? OTOH, as others have said, the way people behave, which has nothing to do with class, can indeed make anyone sigh.

olddudders but your post makes you sound as if you are superior and anyone who enjoys football is a prole, does it not?

As she is well aware, I share DW Ashcombe's distaste for the entire football culture. 22 overpaid prima-donna yobs chasing a bag of wind round a field. And now I believe there is far more interest worldwide in female teams too. Talk about lowering themselves! But politicians know it keeps the proles happy,

distaste, bag of wind, females lowering themselves, keeps the proles happy
Nice.

Bag of wind?