John Bercow has joined Labour - wow

Mamardoit

I'm not sure the 'little' necessarily relates to his height. Little could mean unimportant maybe. Unimportant in a posters opinion of course.

I don't think it's right to use height, hair colour, accent, even education level to judge anyone.

So what criteria can we use to judge anyone?

I'm not sure the 'little' necessarily relates to his height. Little could mean unimportant maybe. Unimportant in a posters opinion of course.

I don't think it's right to use height, hair colour, accent, even education level to judge anyone.

To those posters who describe Bercow as “ horrible little man” and “despicable little man”. Is it his height that you object to ?
Is there something inherently unacceptable in not being tall ?

I think some of the confusion that some of us seem to have had about him stems from his wife standing to be a Labour MP and campaigning for the LP.

lemongrove

CraftyGranny

No Varian I don't read any of the above. I am thinking back to when he was Speaker and his attitude towards the Conservatives. I genuinely thought he was Labour.

It’s not surprising CraftyGranny that you thought he had been a Labour MP before he became the Speaker, because as you say, he favoured the Labour side all the time.It was well known.
The present Speaker was a Labour MP but so far is much fairer to all sides and doesn’t employ heavy sarcasm or like the sound of his own voice as Bercow did. The only thing is I can’t make out much of what he does say, as he sort of swallows his words and has a strong accent.That said, he is a vast improvement all round.
I don’t think that Bercow becoming a member of the Labour Party will worry anyone at all.

Thank you Lemongrove

What a surprise It was bleeding obvious from some of his final decisions as Speaker that he had shifted allegience - even though the Speaker is supposed to be apolitical. He holds the distinction of being the Speaker who was so partisan it was laughable! He is no loss to the conservative party - you are welcome to him labour!

I'm delighted we can offer you a nice holiday spot Annie1

And I'm so glad to have an LSE graduate explain the Union to me.

She still ruined my country, though.

Algreas1, I thought we lived in a Union of which Scotland is a part? Until Scotland leaves the United Kingdom due to Scotland’s population voting to leave, we are joined together whether you like it or not. I have spent holidays in Scotland. It is very beautiful and I found the people I met most friendly. I hope you stay in the Union.

I already thought he was Labour. Never thought he was Conservative the way he acted

No, she really did ruin my country Annie1. The country I live in. The country I belong to. She didn't win any elections in my country, but she managed to ruin it anyway, for a generation. The Tories haven't won any elections in my country for 70 years.

Maybe from your lofty intellectual position you didn't realise I was talking about Scotland.

Excellent post, good points well made Annie1 ????

Only 25% believe Johnson is doing a good job of Brexit - so it seems many in the electorate have realised - so I would not dimiss the 75% as stupid and ignorant (I am however amazed about the 25%).

I read over the thread. I thought it risible when the person used an expression involving Christ which I would never do and then someone indicated that those who opposed her view could not use intellectual argument. If that writer did read widely she would have recognised the description of Mr Bercow. . I did say it was an epithet and apologised for using it. Anyone who spends a lot of time reading about political opinion would have recognised that description. I note that the left really do not want to consider the views of anyone who does not agree with them. They tell us that most Tories have no social conscience. What research supports this assertion? I doubt there is any. Then we are told that Mrs Thatcher ruined “my country” well excuse me but the country does not belong to you. There are over 65 million people here and if she ruined the country then it is odd that apart from Tony Blair the Tories have won most elections. But people on the left would dismiss the electorate as stupid and ignorant. They did that during the Brexit campaign. People did not like that and in the same vein they dislike the metropolitan elite who run BBC and who also seem to inhabit universities. My lot at LSE could be said to favour the left but we were sufficiently educated so we could hold discussions without it descending into hate. Why do we always need to make sweeping statements here ( admittedly only a few of us) but our discussions end up in one eyed argument. Mumsnet seems to handle politics better.

Nothing to do with Remainers/Leavers mouse he was already leaning to the left before that time, and yes, it was well known by those who follow politics.

LG I don't think it was well known that he favoured the Labour side all the time. He perhaps was predisposed towards the Remain viewpoint but he tried to get the voice of parliament heard and, at that time, there were many Conservative Remainers.

CraftyGranny

No Varian I don't read any of the above. I am thinking back to when he was Speaker and his attitude towards the Conservatives. I genuinely thought he was Labour.

It’s not surprising CraftyGranny that you thought he had been a Labour MP before he became the Speaker, because as you say, he favoured the Labour side all the time.It was well known.
The present Speaker was a Labour MP but so far is much fairer to all sides and doesn’t employ heavy sarcasm or like the sound of his own voice as Bercow did. The only thing is I can’t make out much of what he does say, as he sort of swallows his words and has a strong accent.That said, he is a vast improvement all round.
I don’t think that Bercow becoming a member of the Labour Party will worry anyone at all.

Religion and politics are taboo subjects and we all have our own beliefs. I know what I believe and no one will change my mind. Suffice to say I would never vote for a liar and cheat as my Prime Minister.

That's interesting Crafty Granny

I always knew he was a Tory MP but thought he was very fair to all sides.

No Varian I don't read any of the above. I am thinking back to when he was Speaker and his attitude towards the Conservatives. I genuinely thought he was Labour.

Why are Hilary Benn and Yvonne Cooper not on Starmer's front bench?

I think, varianthat it's because they are doing an excellent job as chairs of Select Committees.

I may be wrong of course CraftyGranny but do you happen to read The Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Express or The Sun? - not all of them, just one would have led you to think that Bercow was biased towards the Labour Party.

Oh, I thought Berkow was Labour anyway !

There is a gaping hole in the centre of our politics. The LibDems occupy that space but struggle to fill it.

In 2019 decent MPs from both the Conservative and Labour Party joined the LibDems -

Chuka Umunna (LP), Sarah Wollaston (CP), Phillip Lee (CP), Luciana Berger (LP), Angela Smith (LP), Sam Gyimah (CP), Heidi Allen (CP), Antoinette Sandbach (CP) .

All of them were crushed at the next elecrtion by the well funded Tory and Labour Parties and the undemocratic electoral system FPTP.



Why are Hilary Benn and Yvonne Cooper not on Starmer's front bench?

If you join a Party, any Party, because you believe in their values and what they stand for- and that Party later changes their values, and what they stand for- and actually begin to attack them - it means you support those new values.

There are no two ways about it.

People like Dominic Grieve and now Bercow, and other 'ordinary' Party members and supporters - find that those values have changed beyond recognition and no longer represent their own - just do the honourable thing and say 'no longer in my name'. Respect, good for them.

If you (anyone) refuse to admit those values have changed, and continue to support, come what may (pun not intended) then it must mean that you have also changed your own.

Beckett

frenchie

What, us from the hard left, as you want to describe us, have is a social conscience.
Most tories haven’t and that’s that.

As a Tory voter I do object to your generalisation. I have raised thousands for a cancer charity, volunteer at an end of life hospice and support a charity helping homeless ex-service personnel amongst others. Some of my fellow volunteers also vote Tory, some vote Labour and surprise surprise we all manage to get along without insulting each other

You are obviously a good person Beckett, someone with a strong social conscience.

What I am finding so hard to understand is, being the nice person you are, why on earth are you still a Tory voter?