Batley and Spen by-election

I have nothing against Angela Rayner - on a personal level I have great respect for her - but I do fear that a Rayner led party would have all the electoral disadvantages of Corbyn’s leadership with none of its electoral advantages.

I may well be a cynical individual but I do believe firmly in Alastair Campbell’s adage that to do any good in government, first you have to get into government. The ideological arguments are desperately important but if they continue for another GE cycle then left-leaning people will be handed another hard right Tory government that they don’t want. It is long past time to do a bit of nose holding and accepting that a problematic friend in charge is better than an outright enemy.

trisher:. Just be honest and admit that you wanted Kim to lose…..

Yes, the Labour Party of today did win. The campaign to elect Galloway failed. As my son said when Wales lost in the Euros last week, which was a bitter pill to swallow: ‘We lost. Get over it.’

It’s condescending to suggest that we understand less than you do and think everything is wonderful to be honest though trisher. A lot of us do understand, we are just less idealistic, and more pragmatic about what will succeed. This is an important moment and we have every right to be happy about it.

Do people that are unemployed or use food banks or are, thanks to Tory underfunding not well educated care about Palestine. I do, you do, most of us on gransnet do but the electorate don’t. And, if you can’t get into power you don’t have a say on the world stage at all. Dianne Abbott was on tv saying it was a socialist victory. How much does anyone want to bet that she was involved in trying to get Labour to lose so they could get rid of Keir? Two faced doesn’t even begin to describe her.

I will keep using words to reflect their true meaning. It's pretty important to do that. Nobody says everything in the garden is rosy, I like doodledog am absolutely furious with Starmer on one issue, but am managing to put that to one side and havent even resigned my membership (again). Batley and Spen is actually quite a complex seat, it only went Labour under Blair, this time Galloway split the vote, if you look back at the 2019 election the Tory vote in Batley was split by some keep Yorkshire Yorkshire bloke (apologies I cant remember all the details) so this time the Tory vote wasnt split and Labours was. It's quite a complex seat for many reasons, I am glad Labour won, but I am not actually sure you can take any significance from it either way.

Doodledog I don't know but I think they would have had to look pretty hard at all the things Galloway was saying and that was the main idea.
I think also you have to realise this wasn't a GE and one MP makes little difference in the HofC so it wasn't a question of changing government.

Try looking at the bigger picture- she won but did the LP? Try asking yourslf why some people didn't vote and some voted for Galloway.
But I fully accept it's opening Pandora's box and some would prefer to pretend everything in the garden is lovely. So carry on saying she won if it makes you feel better.

There is often a dissonance between general points of principle and voting intention, though. I strongly disagree with Sir Keir's position on gender, but feel that it is more important to have a Labour government in power and then try to change that. If they are not in power there will not be a chance to change it.

Similarly, I have every sympathy with Palestine, and agree that it is a very important issue. I have much more faith in the LP to deal with it than I do with the Tories, though (and yes I know that the anti-semitism accusations make that difficult), so I wouldn't let it influence my vote unless I really felt that all else were equal. Our votes are for who we want to lead the UK, or to speak for our constituencies, so foreign policy - however important it may be - will always come second to that, I think.

Do you really think that if the LP had lost in Batley and Spen they would have felt that it had happened because of Palestine? I doubt it.

She won trisher I dont know how to help you with this.

Yes, it is winning. That's how the system works.

Galaxy

Winning and losing have no meaning to some in the labour party.

Winning by 300 votes when you've put in a candidate that will appeal to the electorate's emotions, when the person who won votes from you is a prat and the most corrupt government is in power isn't really winning though is it? It's hanging on by your finger nails.

MayBee70

trisher

lemongrove

It isn’t much of a victory I agree trisher but not a defeat either.
As you say, after 12 years of Conservative government, it is a surprise that the LP did so poorly, but if Galloway hadn’t been standing and stirring up racial/cultural division, then the LP candidate would have done better.

I don't think Galloway is "Stirring up racial/cultural division" many of the supporters of Palestine I know are young, white, middle-class and educated. The idea that it's only Muslims who find Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people completely despicable is just racist.
Many LP members would have faced a hard decision in this election and some would have chosen Galloway because of the Palestine issue.

Why would they have faced a hard decision given that Galloway was unlikely to win and they would have known that a vote for him would be tantamount to voting Conservative?

If you don't understand that for many people of all religions/cultural/ethnic origins the plight of the Palestinian people is of vital importance and that the LP for them was a party which stood for their beliefs and which was working towards the acknowledgement of the Palestinian right to exist and that Starmer has single handedly destroyed all their hopes. And that therefore one more Conservtive in the HofC would make little difference but would send a loud message to the LP. Then you don't understand.

The Cobham and Down Council by-election which was convincingly won by the LibDems from the Tories is interesting as it is in Dominic Raab's constituency and has never been anything other that Tory in 40 years.

Winning and losing have no meaning to some in the labour party.

Galloway said he will eat his hat if Labour doesn’t come third,
hope he enjoys it.

To my mind anyone who is willing to risk a Tory win because of so called grievances can’t possibly call themselves a socialist, if they are prepared to risk the poor suffering even more, losing the NHS and all the rot that comes with a Tory.

trisher Your posts sound as though you would have preferred a Tory win, as Galloway presumably would have done. His aim was to unsettle Starmer. I just don't understand why any socialist would prefer a Tory win to a Labour win, even if you don't agree with the current Labour Party or its leader.

I do hope that the opposition parties who between them have the vast majority of votes begin to understand that dividing the vote is the worst thing for the country.

They must begin to work together. The extreme right and left can then decide whether to cooperate, put aside their so called grievances and work for the greater good, or leave and start their own party.

Winning the seat trisher, despite the campaign to stop that happening. That’s plenty to celebrate, and a real kick in the teeth for those who tried every way they could to stop it happening. They failed. Hurrah!

trisher

lemongrove

It isn’t much of a victory I agree trisher but not a defeat either.
As you say, after 12 years of Conservative government, it is a surprise that the LP did so poorly, but if Galloway hadn’t been standing and stirring up racial/cultural division, then the LP candidate would have done better.

I don't think Galloway is "Stirring up racial/cultural division" many of the supporters of Palestine I know are young, white, middle-class and educated. The idea that it's only Muslims who find Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people completely despicable is just racist.
Many LP members would have faced a hard decision in this election and some would have chosen Galloway because of the Palestine issue.

Why would they have faced a hard decision given that Galloway was unlikely to win and they would have known that a vote for him would be tantamount to voting Conservative?

My goodness what is there to celebrate? The loss of almost 3000 votes? If Galloway is such a prat (and most think he is) and he managed to gather so many votes what might someone with real gravitas have done? You can't consider it a great win when one of the people you were up against is so incompetent and yet you only just defeat them.

Excellent result for Kim Leadbetter. I hope she can build on this and achieve positive results in her constituency.

I seriously think George Galloway has mental health problems, he sounded like Donald Trump with his demands to have the vote overturned. He has changed so much since the start of his political career.

The fat lady has sung though, and what counts is winning the seat. A significant proportion of voters Galloway was hoping to persuade obviously weren’t for turning. Wonder where he will pop up next?

lemongrove

It isn’t much of a victory I agree trisher but not a defeat either.
As you say, after 12 years of Conservative government, it is a surprise that the LP did so poorly, but if Galloway hadn’t been standing and stirring up racial/cultural division, then the LP candidate would have done better.

I don't think Galloway is "Stirring up racial/cultural division" many of the supporters of Palestine I know are young, white, middle-class and educated. The idea that it's only Muslims who find Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people completely despicable is just racist.
Many LP members would have faced a hard decision in this election and some would have chosen Galloway because of the Palestine issue.

Thanks GG13