Suspension of the triple lock

Ailidh, don't worry I didn't think you were being snide. I've run payrolls for many years and you aren't alone. I can remember back in the 1980s when I worked in police admin and a soon to be retired officer was complaining about being taxed when he earned the money and then taxed again on his pension. He just wouldn't believe his pension contribution was taken before he was taxed. In the end we had to get payslips, tax books, NI tables out to show him. Again once he understood he was much happier about the tax situation.

I do think it would be better if people understood and I think financial education at school would be great. I made sure my kids were aware of how tax, NI, sick pay, pensions etc worked so they would understand it.

I'm happy if it has helped you to understand how it works, pensions are a bit of a nightmare and of course we don't tend to think about them when we are young.

theworriedwell

Ailidh

I'm with Jillybird. My occupational pension contributions were taken directly from my salary, no choice given. In response to the earlier comment about the tax breaks I'd enjoyed because of that, I have rummage in my memory banks and can find none.

Like many others, I know people who've made feck all effort to save for their retirement, and get the full pensions and top ups that I don't. Annoying doesn't come close.

Your pension contriutions were taken from your pre tax salary so that was your tax break. You will have paid lower NI than people not in a pension scheme, you were "contracted out." In fact the govt were contributing to your occupational pension and you have probably got a better return than those of us who were in the state second pension.

Thankyou, that's helpful. I'll stop feeling indignant now. Well, that sounded snide, I didn't mean it to! It was a genuine thank you.

I do wish that I had been more financially educated - I genuinely had no idea of that, nor do I know anyone else who knew that.
?

All I know is, when I started out in the early 80's the tax rate on our mortgage was 15% at one stage.. young of today the interest rate is tiny..... At one tme I had 3 jobs to help pay for it.
Now at 62 I have worked hard and have savings..that are making no interest....we own our house outright... yeah but i'm having to work until i'm 66.... you ladies who can mange and are not worried about losing the triple lock.. have been retired and having an easy life since you were 60! In 4 years time, whats going to happen to my state pension??? which I have paid into every year since I left school... I wasn't told that it wouldn't be enough and I needed to take out a private pension as well... which I wouldn't have been able to afford!

I disagree completely, but if you refuse to discuss it and let your comment that I was being judgemental stand, there is not a lot I can do.

Doodledog

*It won't affect our generation, bet we do need to encourage people to stop living with unaffordable debt and save more - but I haven't seen this government encourage that.*

How does this tally with your comment that I was being 'superior' when I suggested that savings should not be taken into account when assessing eligibility for what should (IMO) be universal benefits?

I agree that saving should be encouraged so that people have choices in life, but I can understand why people might feel that they are better off not bothering, as unless they are rich enough to be able to rise above 'the system' they will have their savings clawed back until they are in the same position as if they hadn't saved in the first place.

Doodledog I am not having this discussion. They are two totally different things.

growstuff

*It won't affect our generation, bet we do need to encourage people to stop living with unaffordable debt and save more - but I haven't seen this government encourage that.*

There's a simple reason for that. One person's debt is another person's asset.

I know

Callistemon

Thanks cc

I began to wonder if I'd dreamt it!

Sadly not..

It won't affect our generation, bet we do need to encourage people to stop living with unaffordable debt and save more - but I haven't seen this government encourage that.

How does this tally with your comment that I was being 'superior' when I suggested that savings should not be taken into account when assessing eligibility for what should (IMO) be universal benefits?

I agree that saving should be encouraged so that people have choices in life, but I can understand why people might feel that they are better off not bothering, as unless they are rich enough to be able to rise above 'the system' they will have their savings clawed back until they are in the same position as if they hadn't saved in the first place.

It won't affect our generation, bet we do need to encourage people to stop living with unaffordable debt and save more - but I haven't seen this government encourage that.

There's a simple reason for that. One person's debt is another person's asset.

This Tory administration have broken the manifesto commitments on foreign aid, social care, and now look as if the triple lock is next. I am surprised that anyone is surprised.

growstuff

PippaZ

I think your bias is showing Anniel [Sat 10-Jul-21 19:42:03]

Naturally if Labour was in power, they could have read the Crystal ball and foreseen that the worst pandemic in living history ...

Really? This is a discussion about the government thinking about breaking the Triple Lock that has been pulling our State Pension towards the average in Europe very, very slowly.

Talk of average pensions needs to put contributions into context. For example, in Germany, most employees pay 18.6% of gross salary into their pension schemes and many top that up with private insurance. They also continue to pay for healthcare insurance after retirement, which also covers the cost of social care, if necessary, although again some pay for private insurance.

It won't affect our generation, bet we do need to encourage people to stop living with unaffordable debt and save more - but I haven't seen this government encourage that.

Conservatives are not far from scammers at times, all in the cause of taking other people's money for their own enrichment. I just think of how the banks encourage unmanagable debt.

PippaZ

I think your bias is showing Anniel [Sat 10-Jul-21 19:42:03]

Naturally if Labour was in power, they could have read the Crystal ball and foreseen that the worst pandemic in living history ...

Really? This is a discussion about the government thinking about breaking the Triple Lock that has been pulling our State Pension towards the average in Europe very, very slowly.

Talk of average pensions needs to put contributions into context. For example, in Germany, most employees pay 18.6% of gross salary into their pension schemes and many top that up with private insurance. They also continue to pay for healthcare insurance after retirement, which also covers the cost of social care, if necessary, although again some pay for private insurance.

Your problem is that the voting majority do not agree with you

Oh but they do though Annie1

I've already given the stats today so I won't bother again; basically though around 60% of the voting public would rather have somebody else.

Ilovecheese

I suppose the Conservatives are thinking that their core vote of pensioners have "nowhere else to go".
Even as they break their manifesto promises.

Totally agree. All those who voted Tory last time should forget their loyalties and vote for another party. Hold your noses of necessary but vote for someone else.

I happen to know a lot of retired local govt officers whose pension provision is very generous and i imagine some here are not suffering financially

I was an LGO before I left to bring up a family, Annie1, and was diddled out of my pension because all the superannuation I had paid in got refunded in my final salary.

Of course, that was because I was a woman. Unforgivable.

I think your bias is showing Anniel [Sat 10-Jul-21 19:42:03]

Naturally if Labour was in power, they could have read the Crystal ball and foreseen that the worst pandemic in living history ...

Really? This is a discussion about the government thinking about breaking the Triple Lock that has been pulling our State Pension towards the average in Europe very, very slowly.

Perhaps I was a bit unfair but it is possible to agree that we need a fair pension for all without pointing out the perceived failings of others. Surely the failing is governments.

I was not pointing out the failings of others, though. IMO Betty was well within her rights to spend her money (and none of the people involved in the tale had very much to spend).

I was pointing out the unfairness of my grandparents being put back in their place, by having their savings and the money from the sale of their home being taken month by month until they had none left and relied on pocket money, when if they had spent it as they earned it they would have gone straight to that situation, getting free rent and care but with the memories of the holidays and the car and so on.

There is no link between my thinking that my grandparents, or Jillybird's parents, or anyone else should be allowed to keep the money that they have saved, and thinking that there should be a fair pension for all. If you can see one, please point it out.

Ofcourse no govt likes to bring bad news to an important group
Of voters. Reading here i do not yhink you are really representative of the electorate. Older people often vote Conservative so this is a big risk to the Tory vote. Naturally if Labour was in power, they could have read the Crystal ball and foreseen that the worst pandemic in living history would strike a disastrous blow to the economy. I lived through WW2 and find some of our people do nothing but winge and moan. I am alone and at 87 I can manage if the triple lock was cut so i would prefer if it went to poorer people who are totally dependent on state provision. I happen to know a lot of retired local govt officers whose pension provision is very generous and i imagine some here are not suffering financially.

People want the government to look after everyone but then moan about tax! I smirk when i see the usual suspects talking about rich Tories. Remember Callaghan Healey et al plus Tony And Cherie Blair as though labour MPs never became extremely rich not to mention Peter Mandelson, the complete family of Neil and Glenys Kinnock. So you read the Guardian( the lowest circulation paper) and come on here to excoriate the Tories! Your problem is that the voting majority do not agree with you and if Starmer does not develop more appeal to the voters then the Tories will win the next eldction. Sorry!

Some posters have been questioned as to why they’re not claiming Pension Credit if they’re living on the state pension alone.

Pension Credit tops up your weekly income to £177.10 if you’re single, or
your joint weekly income to £270.30 if you have a partner.

If you receive the current full state pension of £179.60, you won’t be eligible for Pension Credit. Nor will most couples living just on a state pension each.

rafichagran

Pippaz If you get basic state pension you will not get UC. If you rent, you may get help, but people who have bought their own houses will not.
The amount of state pension per month is more than UC per month.

That is not correct rafichagran unless you are talking about the New State Pension. If you are then the Basic New State Pension started as equal to the Old State Pension + Guarantee Pension Credit (GPC). So all those on the New Pension receive the equivalent of Pension Credit whether they need it or not. Many on the Old State Pension, who are eligible, do not apply so this change was made for the New State Pension so that no one who should have it goes without.

Add to this the fact that the Basic Pension increases at a higher percentage than the GPC does and you will find that the New Basic Pension is pulling ahead of the Old Basic Pension plus the Pension Credit little by little, year by year.

If you are on the New State Pension you are complaining that you are not getting something that is already built into your basic amount. If that is what you are getting it is still worth applying for NHS Low-income benefit, help with Council Tax and possibly some housing help - you don't just get that if you are renting, e.g., if you have to pay service costs on a flat you may get help.

Ailidh

I'm with Jillybird. My occupational pension contributions were taken directly from my salary, no choice given. In response to the earlier comment about the tax breaks I'd enjoyed because of that, I have rummage in my memory banks and can find none.

Like many others, I know people who've made feck all effort to save for their retirement, and get the full pensions and top ups that I don't. Annoying doesn't come close.

Your pension contriutions were taken from your pre tax salary so that was your tax break. You will have paid lower NI than people not in a pension scheme, you were "contracted out." In fact the govt were contributing to your occupational pension and you have probably got a better return than those of us who were in the state second pension.

Doodledog [Sat 10-Jul-21 18:40:37] Why do you say that?

I felt it sounded very judgemental.

Anyone going into a Care Home who is paid for by the local authority still does get the equivalent of pocket money. There is a sense of humiliation for all who end up applying to the state for help. People deal with it in different ways.

Perhaps I was a bit unfair but it is possible to agree that we need a fair pension for all without pointing out the perceived failings of others. Surely the failing is governments.

What happens when people are unable to manage alone and need a nursing home of some sort? This should of course be part of the NHS but isn’t really and the funding of these places is a nightmare for families of people who do not have huge pension income - which in terms of nursing home fees will not be too many people.
Even when homes are sold the money does not go far if a couple both need care - this funding is a nightmare and needs sorting out.

Pippaz If you get basic state pension you will not get UC. If you rent, you may get help, but people who have bought their own houses will not.
The amount of state pension per month is more than UC per month.

Once again the pensions are hit, women have already had to sacrifice 5 years. They have received any help during the pandemic. Yet they are the first thought of when it comes to cuts disgusting.