Policing the party

Sad isn't it when someone asks a question but doesn't really want an answer.

Hmm.

If she was a new MP who'd only been in place for a shorttime quite possibly M0nica it would of course also depend on if she had maintained standards of decency in her other activities. It wasn't careless remarks by the way. It was retweets.

Trisher would you say it was 'carelessness' if a Conservataive MP had made these 'careless' remarks?

Looked at first link, second page isn't there.
Diane Abbott remarks about white people are not racist because they are true. White people have and still do oppress black people. She's asking for equality, which isn't racist.
I suggest you look at the meaning www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=what+is+racism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Naz Shah has sometimes retweeted silly things. It's not racism it's carelessness.
Both of these women are popular and hard working MPs with big majorities I'm sure some of the people who vote for them must be white.

trisher

Lincslass

Casdon

Corbyn did effectively alienate Jews in the UK though trisher because he knew about but didn’t deal effectively with anti-semitism in the party. There is no excuse for that whatever the factions. It’s a bit rich of you to criticise Starmer for not managing to do what Corbyn couldn’t. At least some progress is being made now, although clearly not to the satisfaction of the left, which would be impossible.

Anyway, this is going round and round and we are destined not to agree - as usual I’m afraid.

Don’t you mean what Corbyn ˋwouldnt dó. Too happy to let the anti semites thrive, and well as the anti white, such as Shah, and Abbott. Disgusting lot of people .

This isn't really worthy of comment except to say that the only people I can imagine would post such racist claptrap are far right extremists. It could be reported but I prefer to let it stand as a real example that racism flourishes in the UK and we all need to be vigilant and call it out.

Really, first form of defence is attack. Are you saying Abbot and Shah said nothing racist about white people.
So I cannot even utter anything wrong about Abbott or Shah, excuse they are from minotity groups? let their own words speak for themselves. www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWeKGFaK0Z8

metro.co.uk/2017/08/23/mp-shares-tweet-saying-abuse-victims-should-shut-their-mouths-for-good-of-diversity.

Lincslass

Casdon

Corbyn did effectively alienate Jews in the UK though trisher because he knew about but didn’t deal effectively with anti-semitism in the party. There is no excuse for that whatever the factions. It’s a bit rich of you to criticise Starmer for not managing to do what Corbyn couldn’t. At least some progress is being made now, although clearly not to the satisfaction of the left, which would be impossible.

Anyway, this is going round and round and we are destined not to agree - as usual I’m afraid.

Don’t you mean what Corbyn ˋwouldnt dó. Too happy to let the anti semites thrive, and well as the anti white, such as Shah, and Abbott. Disgusting lot of people .

This isn't really worthy of comment except to say that the only people I can imagine would post such racist claptrap are far right extremists. It could be reported but I prefer to let it stand as a real example that racism flourishes in the UK and we all need to be vigilant and call it out.

Don’t you mean what Corbyn ˋwouldnt dó. Too happy to let the anti semites thrive, and well as the anti white, such as Shah, and Abbott. Disgusting lot of people .

I'll ignore your adherence to MSM tripe about anti-semitism. But to refer to Diane Abbott as disgusting is just out and out racism. She is a loyal, hard working and groundbreaking black MP who has stood up to horrific racism. Most of the flack she gets is mired in racism. Anyone that buys into that is tarred with the same brush.

lemongrove

Phew, that was a bit of a long post...sorry?I must add that actually M0nica was also a Lib Dem supporter ( still is I guess.)

Interesting read, and I agree. Any Tory PM would be fair game for some on here, whatever they do or do not achieve.

Casdon

Corbyn did effectively alienate Jews in the UK though trisher because he knew about but didn’t deal effectively with anti-semitism in the party. There is no excuse for that whatever the factions. It’s a bit rich of you to criticise Starmer for not managing to do what Corbyn couldn’t. At least some progress is being made now, although clearly not to the satisfaction of the left, which would be impossible.

Anyway, this is going round and round and we are destined not to agree - as usual I’m afraid.

Don’t you mean what Corbyn ˋwouldnt dó. Too happy to let the anti semites thrive, and well as the anti white, such as Shah, and Abbott. Disgusting lot of people .

Kali2

Gagajo ''But if we just have a replacement Boris, what is the point?''

this oft repeating statement is totally unfair. How can anyone equate Starmer for Johnson?

The First Past the Post system produces impossible monsters. In the vast majority of Democratic countries, neither the 'right' or 'the left' is forced into one big lump, but is split into different factions which have big differences within. Currently both Labour and Cons are totally artificial constructs for all the wrong reasons.

The fact is however, that if the 'left' of the Labour Party does not support Starmer, and does not unite, the FPTP system will ensure that they are never re-elected.

Woul you have Said That if Corbyn had won. To many in this country he was a monster, a communist with leanings toward agreeing with anti British thugs. No thanks. Don’t want to become another Cuba.

Grany I heard that interview, gave me the best laugh of the day. It was a change to hear a Labour shadow minister squirming. usually it is Conservative Minister in that position.

MaizieD even some of the tory supporters I know thought NHS staff were entitled to more. You just wonder how a Labour leader could get things so wrong. You surely aren't saying that only left wingers wanted a decent pay award?
I really don't see how you can seperate internal and external matters for evidence of right wing activity. But you also have the post about zero hours contracts.And there is his attitude to Palestine. I've just read that the Green Party and the Liberals want Palestine to be recognised as an independant state, but Starmer hesitates.

Oh, missed the 2% thing. His grasp of how national economies work is not good. But then most people don't 'get' it. Any more would have triggered shouts of 'Labour profligacy'.

trisher

MaizieD In parliament Starmer failed to support human rights when he allowed a bill which will effectively allow investigators to commit crimes without fear of prosecution.
He has suspended left wing members like Naomi Wimbourne Idrissi.
He suggested a 2% rise for NHS staff.
Ken Loach has complained that Regional officers are closing down local parties where anything contraversial might be discussed
He paid compensation and reinstated right wing office workers accused of working against the party without any proper investigation.
Is that enough? I'm sure there's more.

I did ask for not using internal LP politics as evidence.

You've given me one example of an abstention in Parliament that you didn't like. All the rest are to do with the LP internal problems.

But don't bother to respond because I have a really good idea of what you are going to say...

OMG Grany that's awful. I wonder what the Trade Unions will think of that?

For me the most interesting aspect of your post, Lemongrove, is whether BJ will stand as PM in the next election. I believe he will and I think it will be 2023 rather that '24. That's before the new boundaries come into force. I am firmly of the mind that the Tory Party want him to stand, as their best chance of a return government at the moment. Sadly, I believe he is likely to win another term, albeit with a (much, I hope) reduced majority. After that, the Tory Party will gang up to replace him, a move he will 'protest' in the press but rejoice in at home. The Tories will then replace him with a more serious politician and hopefully sanity will return. For me, as a Labour member and voter, his loss or majority will depend on how all factions of my party pull together to bring about a Tory defeat.

After embracing ‘fire and rehire’, Labour is now embracing ‘zero hours’ contracts too

Already they have hypocritically launched a policy to abolish odious ‘fire and rehire’ employment practices, ignoring the fact that they are carrying out such an exercise, within Labour, at the moment.

And now Rayner has announced that the party is reversing its policy on ‘zero hours’ contracts so that employers will be allowed to continue exploiting workers by forcing them to work only when it suits bosses, without access to employment conditions including sick pay and holidays.

So passes the Party of the Workers: not in struggle but in subversion by fake socialists who belong in the Conservative Party.

Way back in 2016, former leader Jeremy Corbyn announced that under him, Labour would abolish ‘zero hours’ contracts. He said a Labour government would legislate to ensure that all employees be given guaranteed hours which must be specified and written into a contract – bringing an end to zero-hour contracts.

If an employer wanted workers to work beyond those hours, they would have to specify the length of additional work along with a reason for asking.

An employer would also have to give reasonable compensation, akin to an “on-call” payment to an employee, for agreeing to make themselves available for additional work, whether they were ultimately asked to do so or not.

Now Angela Rayner has swept all that away.

Asked on the BBC’s Today programme if Labour still opposed ‘zero hours’ contracts, Rayner refused to give a straight answer, and ended up saying that the party now opposes “exploitation” of them:

Mishal Husain: Are u against zero hours contracts?
Angela Rayner: We want everyone to have security..
MH: Are u against 0 hours
AR: This is about healthy balance..
MH: Are u against them?
AR: We're against the exploitation of them
AR is unable to spell out Labour policy #r4today

Phew, that was a bit of a long post...sorry?I must add that actually M0nica was also a Lib Dem supporter ( still is I guess.)

When I joined GN Gaga I had been voting Lib Dem for a long time, the MP was a good one, and was going to get in anyway.I then moved house so had to have a think about what to do and hoped Ed Miliband wouldn’t become PM as I didn’t rate him at all.Then was pleased that Lib Dems were in a coalition and I thought Cameron would be good. Corbyn became LOTO there was no choice at all for me, he had to be
kept out.I would have voted for anyone who was Leader of the Conservatives to get that result.I have always thought that Johnson shouldn’t have been PM ( you will find I have said that at every turn since he became the Leader, even before the last GE.) However, he has done well by ‘getting Brexit done’
Yes, that phrase again, and although there will have been mistakes made in the pandemic, overall I think the government have done ok ( no country has done amazingly well) and it’s understandable, it was a shocking time all round.
He may stand down before the next election, but maybe not, no PM seems to go willingly.
I like Starmer and if he carries on ridding the Party of the far
Left where possible and comes up with a really good manifesto, I wouldn’t be at all worried if he and the LP got in at the next election.
If the Conservatives do well in the next few years, and produce a good manifesto then I will still vote for them probably.
I don’t think Johnson has had a fair trial so far, as with Brexit and then immediately Covid ( he became ill himself too) it would have been a dreadful burden for any PM.I certainly don’t find him to be the monster that posters on GN often do in any case.
The next few years will be the decider.
When I first came onto the forum and the politics pages, it seemed that Varian and me were the only two that admitted voting Lib Dem.....but I soon became disillusioned with them.
Since then they have gone down and down, it’s been a choice of two Parties only ever since.
The individual does matter ( who will be PM or LOTO) but overall, yes, it’s what the actual Party will try and accomplish in their time in power.

trisher

So all those headlines didn't influence the election in 2017 at all Casdon The election the LP almost won, while the right wingers in head office undermined the party.
And yes I would imagine young people are disillusioned. The party that promised so much has a leader that doesn't care for democracy, doesn't support human rights, doesn't seem to have principles and is ready to bankrupt the party. After Corbyn he's a complete disillusion.

Think you are wrong, Labour got less votes than Conservatives in 2017, almost is not the same as did so.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7979/

*belief. Typos, argh!!!

lemongrove

If your allegiance is to the Party and not the individual then you will vote for them surely.

I vote for a party that shares my belief system. I voted Labour 20 years ago and will continue to vote for them IF they share my belieft system.

So are you saying you will vote Tory WHATEVER they do, whether you agree with it or not?

trisher I understand your position on the LP. It wouldn’t be mine but I respect your feelings on it.

If your allegiance is to the Party and not the individual then you will vote for them surely.