Ken Loach may be kicked out of Labour

Casdon

MaizieD Tony Blair wasn’t 30 years ago, he left office in 2007, which by my reckoning is 14 years ago, and he was followed by another Labour PM until 2010? The country has changed in the last 11 years, but not by as much as your statement implied.

Apologies, Casdon. I meant from when he was first elected after along period of tory rule. And I was even wrong about that because it was 24 years ago, not 30. Though it jolly well feels like 30 years!

I think that the country has changed utterly in the last 5 years.

The trouble with Tony Blair isn't just the illegal war he took us into but the huge profits he has made since he left office. Some of which seem to come from strange connections he has in the Middle East and some of which have complicated and difficult to unravel financial details. He may very well be a dedicated and self-sacrificing individual but his history doesn't show this. The Institute for Global Change has absorbed the Windrush Ventures company which was making huge profits and paying directors huge amounts www.standard.co.uk/business/tony-blair-s-company-windrush-ventures-sees-profits-triple-a3151841.html
So I'm a little cynical about what he is really up to now.

MaizieD Tony Blair wasn’t 30 years ago, he left office in 2007, which by my reckoning is 14 years ago, and he was followed by another Labour PM until 2010? The country has changed in the last 11 years, but not by as much as your statement implied.

I have just been watching Tony Blair talking about climate change with John Kerry. He is a loss to politics in this country. Having seen how he has set up his "Institute for Global Change" he is probably also a loss to how the institution of Parliament is run.

His penance for taking us into an illegal war may be that he is an asset to the world. I do hope so.

It means that most Conservative voters will support them no matter what but Labour voters will only vote Labour if the party fits in exactly with what their view of the Labour Party should be. And non Labour voters will continue to think they are not capable of running the country efficiently because they are seen to be a fragmented party where everyone hates everybody else.

Callistemon

^,So, Labour needs a Jack the Lad leader and a single issue?^

Who said that?
Was that how you perceived Tony Blair?

Tony Blair was 30 years ago. We have a completely different country now. A country in which the electorate has demonstrated that it doesn't particularly care about truth or honesty.

The winning combination for the tories in 2019 was a meaningless slogan and a Jack the Lad tory leader.

Sorry to be posting almost continuously but there is a lot that I am struggling to understand.

Ken Loach and Ian Hodson could both be expelled because they are official ‘sponsors’ of Labour Against the Witchhunt (LAW), a group started in 2017 to campaign against what it believed to be politically motivated allegations of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

So this hasn't been aimed at Ken Loach personally. The bans are to stop groups forming within the party that are opposed to the direction of the elected party leadership.

The members made a choice; they chose Keir Starmer. The party is saying these groups oppose what Labour stands for under that chosen leadership. Ken Loach could leave Labour Against the Witchhunt or leave the party. He does have a choice.

leftfootforward.org/2021/07/why-ken-loach-could-be-expelled-from-the-labour-party-tomorrow/

A lot of people don't want to engage in politics they just want their lives to run smoothly - and why not - and have ambitions of affluence.

That is so weird, because unless they vote for a party that is going to endeavour to help people's lives to run smoothly (which does mean a certain engagement in politics, doesn't it?) it's not going to happen...

Whatdayisit

I was thinking about families now who work in skilled jobs like electricians or plumbers who might buy a house to do up don't vote Labour because they want to keep their money and not pay high taxes.
I think those who didn't work at school cos they were going to be celebs mostly don't bother voting.

Aha... something concrete. A reason for not voting Labour.

And unless the left wake up, get in touch with what the electorate wants, not what the very left wing of the LP thinks they need, that's what we will keep getting.

Please.please stop repeating this like a mantra. It tells us absolutely nothing.

What is 'far left' all about?

Look at the 2019 LP manifesto. What was so 'far left', and so totally unacceptable to the electorate, about it?

I was thinking about families now who work in skilled jobs like electricians or plumbers who might buy a house to do up don't vote Labour because they want to keep their money and not pay high taxes.
I think those who didn't work at school cos they were going to be celebs mostly don't bother voting.

Callistemon

^Well, thanks, Callistemon and Annieb for telling me just what I'd asked not to be told.^

Ah, but it's probably the truth so if leftwingers keep wearing blinkers and earplugs then we will continue to have one Tory government after another.

That is the problem and there's some proof that the leftwing of the LP is just not getting it!!

You said this, Cal

The majority do not want extremism of any kind.
They want someone who seems to be decisive - neither Corbyn then nor Johnson now are decisive.
Nor a party which is particularly divisive as both main parties are at present.

A party which appeals to the majority is, of necessity, not a party of extremism

That tells me nothing. Nothing at all about how people want their country to be run, or the measures needed to run the country in that way.

We're just going round in circles.

So, if a party has as its manifesto,

We are not extremist
We are decisive
We are not divisive

they are going to sweep the board because that is what the country wants? No need to bother with policies and ideas for improving citizen's lives?

Dinahmo

Some posters have said that they won't be voting Labour again, maybe even leaving the party because it no longer represents the socialist values that they hold dear.

I'd really like to know what those specific values are please. I'm a member of the LP and not withdrawing my support any time soon.

To me, leaving the LP is far less of a deal than not voting Labour again. Many, if not most voters are not in a party, so it really won't make much difference to the party if people leave or stay. I joined this time in order to have a vote in the leadership election.

If I leave, it will be because of the anti-feminist stance on Trans rights and because of the silencing of dissenting voices, although as I've said I can (sort of) understand why the latter may have been deemed necessary. There are other things with which I disagree, or by which I am disappointed, but on the whole they could be sorted out if Labour get into power.

It doesn't mean that I won't vote Labour though. I honestly can't see an alternative to that.

Also, I agree with trisher's point that the reason many people are no longer in poverty is because of LP policies and innovations of the past. Too many people did well from that and then taught their children to pull the rug up behind them by voting Tory.

Comments about how rich people should not be Labour supporters or Labour MPs are testament to this point of view, and those who hold it may as well admit that they want to keep others in poverty. Similarly, all the posters who never forget to include details of their 'excellent' 50s education in grammar schools, yet decry the expansion of university places in the 90s do the same. They 'got ahead' because of Labour policies, but cling to the elitism that these policies allowed them to bypass. Not to want the same chances for others is mean-spirited in the extreme.

I was thinking of a saying (inspired by other threads) my gran used to say
Stick to your stall even if you sell nowt!
My mum and i thought how out of date as she usually used it for my mum's marriage or awful jobs.
But i think it could be used for Labour and we have been here so many times before.

Sounds like the sort of people that didn’t bother to work hard at school because they assumed they would just become a celeb one day. imo the next government of this country will be a Labour one and I’m going to do my darnest to achieve that. And for that reason I’m going to support the leader if the party. As I did with the previous one.

I don't think we will see a Labour Government again. The SNP took a lot of Labour seats which Westminster needed. A lot of constituencies have changed one in our area Hemsworth was once solid Labour - donkey and all that - it now includes a large chunk of the most affluent area of Wakefield.
A lot of people don't want to engage in politics they just want their lives to run smoothly - and why not - and have ambitions of affluence.

Why did Blair win three consecutive general elections ?

Why did Michael Foot and Corbyn take the party to such
disasterous general election results ?

Some posters have said that they won't be voting Labour again, maybe even leaving the party because it no longer represents the socialist values that they hold dear.

I'd really like to know what those specific values are please. I'm a member of the LP and not withdrawing my support any time soon.

Well, it's obvious to so many, Anniebach.

We and all the erstwhile Labour voters obviously don't know what's good for us!

Surely it is obvious the country doesn’t want a far left government but the far left want a far left party leader

Whatdayisit

MaizieD don't shoot the messenger i am still mourning the 2019 GE but that is what people voted for on that December Thursday and the price we have still yet to pay.

And unless the left wake up, get in touch with what the electorate wants, not what the very left wing of the LP thinks they need, that's what we will keep getting.

Callistemon

^Many extreme left wing Labour Party members don’t actually know what it’s like to actually be dirt poor.^

I think that is true, Maybee

I think some of us do. We just don't go on about it and we aren't prejudiced against people who have money but simply believe in equality and fair shares. There are very few people left who grew up in extreme poverty simply because a socialist government put in place measures to stop that.
My mother grew up in the 30s with a father who sometimes worked, because he was a docker, and the system meant he was employed sometimes and not at others. What is dreadful is that the LP now seems to be embracing the very policies he and other Union members fought against . It's abandoning the principles it once had and is supporting a system which is bringing back poverty for many families. It's disgusting.

MaizieD don't shoot the messenger i am still mourning the 2019 GE but that is what people voted for on that December Thursday and the price we have still yet to pay.

,So, Labour needs a Jack the Lad leader and a single issue?

Who said that?
Was that how you perceived Tony Blair?

Well, thanks, Callistemon and Annieb for telling me just what I'd asked not to be told.

Ah, but it's probably the truth so if leftwingers keep wearing blinkers and earplugs then we will continue to have one Tory government after another.

That is the problem and there's some proof that the leftwing of the LP is just not getting it!!