RNLI and Farage

Pammie, I don't expect Brexit will have any impact on our international responsibly over those seeking asylum. And as far as I'm aware they have never had to seek asylum in the "first safe country".

My concern is not the infrastructure to be honest. We can afford HS2 (apparently) and are still a "wealthy" country.
My concern is people suffering. We should be part of the solution.

@Alegrias1. I didn’t actually say the country was full - my concern is not actually the migrants themselves, but the strain on the infrastructure. There was a news report a while back - think it was the end of June - saying that the RNLI were now going into French waters to rescue migrants and handing them over to the Royal Navy, who escorted them back. I don’t know if this is still going on, but the report was disturbing. I don’t know what the solution is, but surely more focus should be on smashing the people smuggling rings who are preying on these people. I did actually think that asylum seekers were obliged to seek refuge in the first safe country they reached - there was a piece of EU law which provided broadly that where an asylum seeker has been fingerprinted in an EU Member State but then moves on to another EU Member State, the asylum seeker can be sent back to the first country to have the asylum claim processed there. But thinking about it, this probably doesn’t hold since Brexit anyway.

The country is not full. We have decided not to devote our money to infrastructure development. Comparing it with Australia is not useful because 35% of Australia is desert, it's not habitable. A person doesn't have to claim asylum in the first "safe" country they reach. The RNLI are not escorting people back. Not everybody who arrives gets to stay. Immigration to this country last year was about 270,000 a year, so the 10,000, maybe 15,000 by year end arriving by dinghy is 5% of the total, although Patel wants you to think its the biggest problem facing Britain today. In 10 years things might be different.

Think that covers everything.....

I'd like to ask all those in favour of welcoming everyone who wants to come here, will you still be saying the same thing in 10 years? Or 20 years? How can a country the size of the UK keep taking in people from all over the world?

This. I’m not unsympathetic to migrants but how can we keep going on like this ? It’s not a question of the country being full, it’s a question of overloading the infrastructure. And how do you differentiate between those genuinely seeking asylum and economic migrants ? What about the people smugglers who make a fortune out of other people’s misery, because they are the reason these people are being loaded into dinghies and put in peril. And forgive me, I didn’t think genuine asylum seekers could pick and choose the country in which they seek asylum. I thought it had to be the first soil they touch after leaving their own country. And finally, the RNLI is a charity - volunteers helping people in peril. A lot of the report I’ve seen have indicated that they are not saving people, but escorting them back, helped by the Royal Navy. Not what the RNLI was intended for.

I'd say with a population of 67 million in a country the size of a pocket handkerchief we should be strictly limiting the number of people coming in because the numbers are becoming unmanageable. We don't have enough homes for people here already so how can we house even more? The whole of New Zealand has less than half the population of London. We have 2.5 times the population of Australia which is a huge country. This year alone there have been 10,222 people crossing the channel in dinghies, and it's only August.
I'd like to ask all those in favour of welcoming everyone who wants to come here, will you still be saying the same thing in 10 years? Or 20 years? How can a country the size of the UK keep taking in people from all over the world?

GillT57

I wonder how those who think this country is 'full' react to the 3m or so Hong Kong Chinese that Johnson has promised UK citizenship to.

I mentioned that a few pages ago, GillT57. Even posted a link to a thread about it which ran on here about a year ago. Certainly no concerns voiced, on what proved to be quite a short thread, about the UK being 'full'.

GN , like the rest of the UK, is now seriously divided into "them and us".

Why should this ever have have happened in the "United Kingdom"???

MaizieD

MerylStreep

a lot of ignorance about the sea
Not me JaneJudge
One of my ancestors was on the Bounty.
I’ve sailed all my adult life.
I lived onboard for 20 years.
I’ve done my navigation course ( pre satellite navigation)
I’ve sailed across the channel more times than I can remember.
My OH has done the Fastnet Race.
So I do know a little bit about it ?

But you haven't even posted on this thread, Meryl. Did the call go out for a pile on?

Most probably, I've noticed it a lot.

I wonder how those who think this country is 'full' react to the 3m or so Hong Kong Chinese that Johnson has promised UK citizenship to.

I have just read a GOV document New Plan for Immigration Policy Statement. July 21.
It is part of the government’s plan to “take back control” and “regain sovereignty”.
I think after reading this, it will be virtually impossible for those arriving here illegally to claim asylum, whatever their original country of origin or situation.
Stand by for a huge influx from Afghanistan - a humanitarian crisis in another country which has not been improved by our interference.

railman

*Alegrias1*. Your post from yesterday morning - which was a useful and informative read contained this comment, which I think is likely to be a problem:

"There is also the question of what happens to them when they get here; either they have a right to be here or they don't."

The question is how do we determine if a refugee has a "right" to be here - the criteria that underpins such a decision must be difficult to address in our present cultural climate. There is so much division and genuine hatred in all sectors, and much of it has been stoked, or at best not denounced by the present government.

Sadly, I fear we have a very long way to go, if the UK is to combat the racism, fear of foreigners, and the class system and elitism and entitlement which seems so pervasive at the moment.

Good post

Thank you railman (and others who have commented on my post from yesterday).

Are there a set of universal rights that every country is expected to apply to refugees and asylum seekers? Perhaps somebody has that knowledge. I would hope that we assess people on need, rather than misguided opinions about the country being "full", or some such.

Alegrias1. Your post from yesterday morning - which was a useful and informative read contained this comment, which I think is likely to be a problem:

"There is also the question of what happens to them when they get here; either they have a right to be here or they don't."

The question is how do we determine if a refugee has a "right" to be here - the criteria that underpins such a decision must be difficult to address in our present cultural climate. There is so much division and genuine hatred in all sectors, and much of it has been stoked, or at best not denounced by the present government.

Sadly, I fear we have a very long way to go, if the UK is to combat the racism, fear of foreigners, and the class system and elitism and entitlement which seems so pervasive at the moment.

Admiral of the Fleet on R4 saying how disappointing it is to hear and read the comments being directed at the RNLI (as a result of Farages comment).

He is very encouraged however at the support being shown and hope this continues.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0920fvq

Not only are people giving they are joining up??
How bloody marvellous

“A warm welcome aboard to all our new followers and supporters who've joined our crew these past few days. These are just some of the many recent rescues that the amazing volunteers you support have been carrying out this week”#SaveEveryOne

MerylStreep

^a lot of ignorance about the sea^
Not me JaneJudge
One of my ancestors was on the Bounty.
I’ve sailed all my adult life.
I lived onboard for 20 years.
I’ve done my navigation course ( pre satellite navigation)
I’ve sailed across the channel more times than I can remember.
My OH has done the Fastnet Race.
So I do know a little bit about it ?

But you haven't even posted on this thread, Meryl. Did the call go out for a pile on?

JaneJudge

Do 'some posters on gransnet' want people who are brown to drown? as it sounds like that is what Farage wants

sorry to be so blunt but a lot of what I have read suggests if they are over in France waters it is ok if they drown and even if they have passed some kind of boundary in the sea to the UK it is ok to let them drown as well

There also seems a lot of ignorance about the sea in general but this doesn't surprise as I lived on the coast and people were idiots wrt the sea and tides etc etc I have honestly never seen so much stupidity around water, so I suspect you some of you might fall into that part of the venn

Very nasty, and sickening last paragraph. Naivete around water, causes people to drown, like the poor souls on Loch Lomond, the young lads in the lake, but hey they were in your eyes, stupid. Did they deserve their fate, no they bloody well didn’t. Sadly not all are perfect like you.

a lot of ignorance about the sea
Not me JaneJudge
One of my ancestors was on the Bounty.
I’ve sailed all my adult life.
I lived onboard for 20 years.
I’ve done my navigation course ( pre satellite navigation)
I’ve sailed across the channel more times than I can remember.
My OH has done the Fastnet Race.
So I do know a little bit about it ?

JaneJudge there are no comments on this thread that support what you say.

Excellent post Alegraises1. This government could also allow those refugees to work while they are being processed, we are so short of so many skilled people I am sure it would be a great help, not only for them but us as well.

Do 'some posters on gransnet' want people who are brown to drown? as it sounds like that is what Farage wants

sorry to be so blunt but a lot of what I have read suggests if they are over in France waters it is ok if they drown and even if they have passed some kind of boundary in the sea to the UK it is ok to let them drown as well

There also seems a lot of ignorance about the sea in general but this doesn't surprise as I lived on the coast and people were idiots wrt the sea and tides etc etc I have honestly never seen so much stupidity around water, so I suspect you some of you might fall into that part of the venn

I mean this sincerely and I'm not trying to pick a fight.

I can't think of anything political that Farage has ever said that I agree with, seriously.

I don’t support Farage. I might agree with some things he says if I consider them to be right and correct but there’s a lot I don’t agree with. All things considered I don’t think I actually support anybody.

Whitewave the pic that you show about things that ‘Conservatives don’t like’ is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen on GN (and I’ve seen a lot.)