So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff a good teacher will engage with their pupils (whatever the subject) motivate and nurture their quest for knowledge.

A good teacher can't engage with pupils if courses aren't being offered or if there is too little curriculum time to teach them properly.

Many teachers are handicapped by the attitudes which pupils bring with them.

Of course, the pupils of a "good" teacher will achieve better than those of a "bad" teacher (or one not trained/qualified to teach a specific subject), but having a good teacher is only part of the equation.

GrannyGravy13

How very condescending of you.

I am in no way blinkered regarding education.

If folks cannot see that a good teacher who has the ability to enthuse and engage their students has the ability to impart a love of language, well?

Of course. And I like to think that is what I did. My subject was very popular and very successful due partly to me (sorry but it’s the only thing I do well!) and to my colleague who was inspirational. Italian has now been abandoned at that school for purely financial reasons.
in order for mandarin to be taught in a lot of schools then much investment would be required to train speakers of mandarin, and investment is something that is rarely forthcoming for language teaching. In any case wouldn’t it be better to stick to mostly European languages given how near we are geographically?!

That was to PippaZ

How very condescending of you.

I am in no way blinkered regarding education.

If folks cannot see that a good teacher who has the ability to enthuse and engage their students has the ability to impart a love of language, well?

NOT NZ/OZ but British

GrannyGravy13

growstuff a good teacher will engage with their pupils (whatever the subject) motivate and nurture their quest for knowledge.

Of course they will but, as I have already said, they are not to blame - and it seems you will always blame "others" - if the course is not available. You seem to have a very blinkered view of education.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

As for chalet girls and other seasonal workers in European Ski Resorts I wonder why they are predominantly Australian or New Zealander’s ? These young folks obviously have no problem with applying for work visas, and they are definitely not part of the EU.

Oh, FGS!

Australians and NZealanders haven't had easy access to EU Member States taken away from them. You don't miss what you've never had...

And why is everyone so damn fixated on Chalet girls and ski instructors as though they were the only jobs in the EU that have ever been open to our young people? They do get older and want something a bit more substantial in the way of employment.

Now we are a third country the EU no longer 'recognises' many UK professional qualifications. That's a bit of an impediment to accessing a huge range of jobs in the EU.

Maizie I am a keen skier and a member of the British Ski club and related groups, and a British Ski instructor- and have worked with British Ski Companies for about 30 years, organising trips for young people and adults. Hence my special interest in the field, and knowledge of related staff at all levels- mainly British, NOZ NZ /OZ.

Let’s give the Turing Scheme a chance, it covers the world not just the EU?

As of 04/08/21 40,000 students funded to study across the globe.

Turing-scheme.org.uk

Johnson turned down the opportunity to stay within the Erasmus programme. He obviously thinks, like many on here, that we our children need to know their place, not get above themselves, just be glad they are British. Ask any of many posters on here whose adult children have lost their jobs due to the their employers moving to EU cities, they will tell you it isn't all about gap years and chalet staff.

growstuff a good teacher will engage with their pupils (whatever the subject) motivate and nurture their quest for knowledge.

GrannyGravy13

Learning any foreign language is down to the enthusiasm and competence of the teacher.

It is their job to enthuse and engage their pupils with the language.

No, learning a foreign language is also down to the motivation which a pupil brings to the classroom, the amount of curriculum time devoted to learning foreign languages, fitness for purpose of exams, the availability of suitable staff, the ease with which foreign contacts can be established and so much more.

Katie59

“No, student exchange will not continue as before. The UK has been excluded from the Erasmus programme which facilitated most exchanges - and much more.
Boo”

Correct, Erasmus allowed exchange at no extra cost, thats finished. It is highly likely that short term and working visas will be allowed for some students and young people as happens for many countries around the globe.

You really don't seem to understand what the Erasmus programme did. In any case, if you are referring to the Turing Programme, it's a highly watered-down version of Erasmus, which will not be free, so only so-called "middle classes" will be able to afford it.

Do you think only the middle classes benefit from broader thinking?

GrannyGravy13

Learning any foreign language is down to the enthusiasm and competence of the teacher.

It is their job to enthuse and engage their pupils with the language.

I am sure that teachers will add value to the subject as will the diligence and competence of the pupil. However, aren't you ignoring the fact that it may not even be on offer? In that case, no teacher is involved. Perhaps an analysis of the problem would be made more competently by someone starting at the source of the issue. I know the first manifesto promise of the Conservatives is "We will always find someone else to blame", but isn't that wearing a bit thin, even for their most devout of followers?

“No, student exchange will not continue as before. The UK has been excluded from the Erasmus programme which facilitated most exchanges - and much more.
Boo”

Correct, Erasmus allowed exchange at no extra cost, thats finished. It is highly likely that short term and working visas will be allowed for some students and young people as happens for many countries around the globe.

Callistemon

^Its really hard not to be sarcastic. I've failed^

Do be careful, Alegrias, sarcasm is not allowed ?

I was as annoyed/astonished as anyone but I will say that our family and others I know are not the types to sit bemoaning and hand wringing. They see that difficulties might present themselves and find out how to solve the problems.

If EU employers are asking for applications from only EU passport holders for the types of job carried out by young unskilled people then they might find themselves struggling.
This would exclude not only UK passport holders but adventurous young people from all around the world.

Their businesses must be on the edge anyway, with Covid still around.

I hope they've thought this through properly.

I got over it Call

Employers of unskilled workers are going to take the easiest route they can find to employing them. So if there are young people who can turn up and pick their grapes (or whatever), and start work the next day, versus people who have to make the employer wait until their work status is clarified, of course the employer is going to choose the former. I think this idea that they need us more than we need them is typical of the Brexiter thinking, I’m afraid. (Can’t remember if you voted Leave or Remain!)

As for your family, not sitting around and hand wringing, good for them. Wouldn’t it have been nicer if they hadn’t needed to worry about the new rules, just as we have not had to worry for about 40 years?

Learning any foreign language is down to the enthusiasm and competence of the teacher.

It is their job to enthuse and engage their pupils with the language.

HolySox

lemongrove

The title of this thread should be: So many dreams for our youngsters ( middle class ones mainly) made slightly more difficult by red tape.

Very well said lemongrove.

Brexit means there are now huge opportunities for work and careers in farming, fishing, building industry, HGV driving, etc.
Perhaps the real overseas opportunities lie outside the EU with many youngsters learning Mandarin.

How many is many?

If schoolchildren struggle to learn French, they're not likely to be able to master Mandarin.

vegansrock

Its only middle class people who want to learn a language, study or get a job in Europe - so that’s ok then.

Are you implying that "working class" people are content to be narrow minded and parochial?

MaizieD it was Kali2 who brought up lost opportunities in ski resorts, I was just responding.

FYI no fixation just answering a post.

GrannyGravy13

As for chalet girls and other seasonal workers in European Ski Resorts I wonder why they are predominantly Australian or New Zealander’s ? These young folks obviously have no problem with applying for work visas, and they are definitely not part of the EU.

Oh, FGS!

Australians and NZealanders haven't had easy access to EU Member States taken away from them. You don't miss what you've never had...

And why is everyone so damn fixated on Chalet girls and ski instructors as though they were the only jobs in the EU that have ever been open to our young people? They do get older and want something a bit more substantial in the way of employment.

Now we are a third country the EU no longer 'recognises' many UK professional qualifications. That's a bit of an impediment to accessing a huge range of jobs in the EU.

Its really hard not to be sarcastic. I've failed

Do be careful, Alegrias, sarcasm is not allowed ?

I was as annoyed/astonished as anyone but I will say that our family and others I know are not the types to sit bemoaning and hand wringing. They see that difficulties might present themselves and find out how to solve the problems.

If EU employers are asking for applications from only EU passport holders for the types of job carried out by young unskilled people then they might find themselves struggling.
This would exclude not only UK passport holders but adventurous young people from all around the world.

Their businesses must be on the edge anyway, with Covid still around.

I hope they've thought this through properly.

GrannyGravy13

As for chalet girls and other seasonal workers in European Ski Resorts I wonder why they are predominantly Australian or New Zealander’s ? These young folks obviously have no problem with applying for work visas, and they are definitely not part of the EU.

Probably in the way the UK will still have to let seasonal veg pickers in, because the Brits don't want to do it. An exception will be made for the Eastern Europeans that WILL do it.

A bit like 'Camp America'. Sold to British older teenagers as part holiday, with spending money thrown in. Not the same as actual employment needing a visa.

This idea that "we were fine before we joined the EU" is such lazy thinking.

Firstly, we were desperate to join the EEC (as it was in 1973). Our economy got us the nickname of "the Sick Man of Europe", so we (except for the little Englanders) were keen to join.

Since 1983 the economy of the world has changed. Smaller countries have become part of a product chain, rarely making anything from start to finish. Those who think we should need to alter world economics to do that. One small country is unlikely to change current economics; not while maintaining our living standard for the decades it will take to do it. We seem unable to feed and house our own. Our expertise in commerce will need to grow a great deal to persuade the world that we know better than they do.

It is a huge and lengthy job to replace your largest market with a multitude of smaller markets. Many companies go bankrupt while trying to accomplish that. Why would we, as a small country, succeed better than larger blocks can?

We were fine before someone discovered fire, plumbing and secure housing but do the advocates of this government think going back to that is a good idea?

Its clear - stop wanting to go abroad and expand your horizons, everything you could possibly want is right on your doorstep.

Stop complaining that it suddenly got harder to go to countries that used to accept you with no questions asked, my hairdresser's cousin's dog walker went to France to pick grapes in 1962 and it wasn't hard at all.

The youth of today, eh? They just want everything handed to them on a plate.

Its really hard not to be sarcastic. I've failed.

And remember...
There are bold pilots and old pilots but no old bold pilots.

So why do you think it was a good idea that mainly conceitedly bold old took us out of Europe?