So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

This (above) in response to Kandinsky.

10% is a lot!

Indeed Lucca- I know many who have gone to work in leisure, in the Alps for skiing, or Spain, etc, for surfing, sailins, kayaking, etc- who are NOT posh at all. They WORK hard for little money but love the job. Learn the language/s, get grounded, go up the ladder, often stay long-term in much better jobs in the end. Often marry locals, or others who they meet on the way from all over the world.

NotSpaghetti

I doubt the summer jobs in Europe which used to be easy (and, conversely the UK jobs that young Europeans would have taken) are the same as a "planned" gap year in Thailand where, if Callistemon is correct, thousands of pounds are necessary.
A cheap ferry/flight/train was all that was required.

Exactly, no comparison at all. As a member of EU, our youngsters (anyone actually) could go to EU, very cheaply, hitch-hiking even or by bicycle on ferry, train, cheap plight- for a whole 3 months to look for work. Now that is just not possible. Visa required, and job contract must be in place before you leave, and the employer has to make a special case for employing someone non-EU. Just as it was before we joined. Almost impossible.

Why “ middle class ones “?. It’s not just about gap year fgs.
I’ve taught students very much not middle class who have set off to work in Europe.

But I realise any doubt cast on the wisdom of brexit has to be stamped on at once. I give up.

The title of this thread should be: So many dreams for our youngsters ( middle class ones mainly) made slightly more difficult by red tape.

And that, children, is how we ended up in this state. The lesson is children, don't worry about people who want to do something that doesn't fit in with the perceived norm. They just don't matter!

The vast majority of young people in the UK just want a job in this country - I don’t know the percentages but I’d be shocked if more than 10% want to work / study in Europe. So this really isn’t going to worry too many people.

I doubt the summer jobs in Europe which used to be easy (and, conversely the UK jobs that young Europeans would have taken) are the same as a "planned" gap year in Thailand where, if Callistemon is correct, thousands of pounds are necessary.
A cheap ferry/flight/train was all that was required.

Lucca

vegansrock

Going to Thailand on a gap year is NOT the same as getting a permanent job in Paris, studying in Copenhagen, setting up a business in Germany or retiring to Spain. It has become vastly more difficult to do the latter examples One of my family teaches in a university in Italy. He would find immense bureaucratic difficulties in obtaining that job now, since parity of educational qualifications from non EU countries is not immediately recognised. Those who say it can be done , we didn’t do it in my day, you can go to Australia etc , are missing the point, we have deliberately made life more complicated and expensive for thousands of our fellow citizens.

Exactly.
People are talking about gap years, that’s not what this is all about, this is about people wanting to spend time in a European country working, quite possibly for well over a year.

Interesting to hear what Gagajo said, which illustrates the point being made.

Which was precisely the point I was trying to make. Thank you ladies ?

MerylStreep

A friend of my grandson has started his Pilot training.
I will pass on your words of wisdom kali2
I doubt his reply will be printable on GN.

In the case of pilots there are only 2 credible qualifications, for the EU it is EASA for the USA it is FAA, other national qualifications are quite restrictive. Many countries have policies to employ local pilots these days so work permits are not as easy as the past.

vegansrock

Going to Thailand on a gap year is NOT the same as getting a permanent job in Paris, studying in Copenhagen, setting up a business in Germany or retiring to Spain. It has become vastly more difficult to do the latter examples One of my family teaches in a university in Italy. He would find immense bureaucratic difficulties in obtaining that job now, since parity of educational qualifications from non EU countries is not immediately recognised. Those who say it can be done , we didn’t do it in my day, you can go to Australia etc , are missing the point, we have deliberately made life more complicated and expensive for thousands of our fellow citizens.

Exactly.
People are talking about gap years, that’s not what this is all about, this is about people wanting to spend time in a European country working, quite possibly for well over a year.

Interesting to hear what Gagajo said, which illustrates the point being made.

they have to complete a certain period of agricultural work

Where do you think I went, 15th century China? ?

And no, no specific job.

Going to Thailand on a gap year is NOT the same as getting a permanent job in Paris, studying in Copenhagen, setting up a business in Germany or retiring to Spain. It has become vastly more difficult to do the latter examples One of my family teaches in a university in Italy. He would find immense bureaucratic difficulties in obtaining that job now, since parity of educational qualifications from non EU countries is not immediately recognised. Those who say it can be done , we didn’t do it in my day, you can go to Australia etc , are missing the point, we have deliberately made life more complicated and expensive for thousands of our fellow citizens.

I accepted a last minute job in Spain 4 years ago. The original new-hire didn't have an EU passport and the school spent ages trying to get them a visa with no success. I got the job and was able to start 10 days later, with my British/EU passport.

Wouldn't happen now. Any European jobs I've seen advertised that once I would have applied for (I'm not interested now, am staying with my family in UK) ALL state that applicants must hold an EU passport.

A few years later (in my forties shock) I went to live in a non-EU country and had to pass medicals, send in my qualifications for "approval" and had to apply for a visa. Having been through both systems, the first was definitely more conducive to me fulfilling my opportunities.

Is that because you were going for a specific job and, of course, you were older, Alegrias.

If it's the country I am thinking of, a one year working visa is obtained easily online for those under 30 and then it's up to the individual to seek work when they arrive. After that, if they wish to stay and work for another year, they have to complete a certain period of agricultural work which many young people of all nationalities do.
Or rather, did, pre-Covid.

It's different for someone who wants to take up a professional position.

maddyone

^Well yes that’s fine but many want to be in Europe! It’s closer for a start. It’s the fact that choice has been removed.^

I understand that, although clearly choice has not been removed, it’s simply a bit more complicated now. I was simply making the point that very many young people do not want to go to Europe as it is regarded as too similar to the UK. Young people tend to go to Australia, South America, and The Far East for their travels these days. If young people can travel to other continents and work there, it cannot be beyond their wit to travel to Europe either. It is surely more difficult and complicated to travel and work in Cambodia or Peru than to France. We should not put young people down. If they want to work in Europe then they will sort it out and work in Europe.

Most popular destinations for gap years 2019:

The Most Popular Countries to Take Gap Years In:
Country Average monthly travel costs
1 Thailand£1,533
2 Australia£3,178
3 Vietnam £910
4 Peru £969
5 New Zealand £2,768
6 USA £5,023
7 Cambodia £786
8 South Africa £1,826
9 Argentina £808
10 India £647

Young people are probably more adventurous than we were when we were young when grape picking or au pairing in France was the aim of the privileged few.

These are preferred destinations for many adventurous young Europeans too as they backpack around, working or volunteering as they go.

costs involved.
Young people could/can quite easily travel to Europe on train, ferry, bus, coach

there are other countries outside the E U ? Really ?
Well in that case maybe we should stop teaching European languages as it’s now so hard to have work experience there.

btw I know a few, really!

Profound ...

Ellianne

and Politics threads^
I love a bit of rough and tumble, but preferably not in the air! Talking of pilots!!
Too much turbulence.

?
And remember...
There are bold pilots and old pilots but no old bold pilots.✈️

It must also be remembered that there are many many countries in the world outside of EU ones.

If you are happy with the choice to drastically limit the choice for your children and grand-children- then I shall insist on my choice to call it selfish and unfair.

Fair enough, surely.

Lincslass
Thank you for the link. All the reasons are there ( and there’s more) why I voted to leave.

maddyone : ' If they want to work in Europe then they will sort it out and work in Europe.'

I am sorry, but it is just not as easy as that. I thought I had made that clear. Employers in tourism, leisure-sport, and other trades and professions, be they British or EU- are NOT employing British youngsters currently because the red tape is so massively complicated and expensive too.

So yes, a very few might make it, somehow- but for the vast majority, that is just not going to happen.

And they are now not able to go to Europe for 3 months to look for work- they have to have a contract before going, and the employer will have to make a case for employing them rather than local youngsters and go through all sorts of hoops.