So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

MawBe

Actually I know very well what they do -as nieces, a nephew , daughters and sons of various friends and back in the day two of my cousins did it.
They also managed to fit in a fair bit of skiing and social life, so please don’t preach.

So you must be aware that it is quite a bit harder than being an Au Pair (Au Pair conditions are very strict and very clear- 30 hours max, and no sole charge of children for more than a few hours, no heavy housework, time for leisure and language school all paid for, etc)- so why call them 'entitled' and Gap Year Ya, à la Hurray Henry. I only commented because of the tone of your comment, so no preaching from me.

I am surprised you have never watched 'Chalet Girl'. The girl is actually not posh at all- and from a very modest home in the UK, trying to live her dream. With silly Bill Nawie (can't remember how to spell it).

And yes, chalet staff, and Au Pair girls- do have time to ski, snowboard, and more- in their free time- just like Au Pair girls.

Many youngsters who work in ski resorts, Hotels, ski shops, ski schools, and equivalent in Summer for sailing, surfing, etc ... do have very full time jobs, working very long hours. And as said, many stay and their jobs evolve with time. Many settle and stay- and take on very full time and responsible jobs and have families.

MaizieD I agree - I was not a Leaver either, but I try very hard to retain a sense of proportion by remembering the “Serenity prayer” about the wisdom of learning to tell the difference

An ex student of mine who studied modern Greek and French at university had a job as an interpreter in Brussels and hasn’t had his contract renewed - reason - he has a U.K. passport. He is trying to get an EU one via his Cypriot heritage, but that doesn’t remove the heartache of having his dream job removed and having to jump through bureaucratic hurdles he didn’t have to when getting the job in the first place. Yes, maybe those jobs exist in the U.K, not sure where, but some people like to expand their horizons.

The tone does seem to be that other people's children benefitted from these things but my children are 'entitled' for wanting the same experiences. One of mine in particular had to put up with changes to GCSEs which were a disaster, A levels that were sorted on an algorithm, a disaster which was university application.

I wasn't going to post this either but the global company my husband worked for in MK has moved their operations to Europe as it's not viable for them trade in the UK anymore because of the new customs arrangements. I doubt it's the only one and my husband isn't even young. Luckily he has plenty of work but it is going to be so much more difficult for younger people with less skills to find alternative work

Bloody hell, reading some of these posts.....why should anyone decide whether or not being a chalet maid, ski instructor or nursery assistant on a french campsite is a worthwhile way to spend time. The fact is the ease of doing so is no more, the chance of broadening your horizons is hampered by the increased and unnecessary difficulties in getting the paperwork sorted. it may lead to less young people believing they are entitled to have and do whatever they want Good grief.

but what makes it hard to agree is the accusatory tone, the intransigence and the implication that anybody who is not 101% in agreement is somehow small -minded, Little British and pig ignorant

Sorry, Maw. What makes it hard to take is the smug indifference to the effect that the Leave vote has had on other people's lives. A Remain vote would have made no difference at all to people's lives. It's a big responsibility to make choices for other people which may have a detrimental effect. That never seems to have been considered.

One day there might be an apology...

Isn't this evidence of the divide though?

I think it's evidence of a lack of understanding of how very closely integrated with the other EU member states we had become at a personal level. It's not just about gap year or holiday jobs; to assume that it is reveals a certain narrowness of thought, but about opportunities for life.

Opportunities to work seamlessly between two or more EU states, either travelling between them or settling in one, for a whole career. Opportunities to start small businesses to trade seamlessly with 27 other nations, opportunities to develop relationships with other EU nationals and be confident of their right to live in each other's country.

What was so wrong with all that that it had to be taken away?

What have we gained from it?

Oh dear - some people act as if they are the only ones to have any knowledge or experience of people of whatever age studying or working outside the UK.
I would be in sympathy with much of the argument re choice - on principle- but also personally as D2 who studied at the Maastricht Kunstakademie has worked in theatres in Germany, Sweden, the US as well as the U.K., but what makes it hard to agree is the accusatory tone, the intransigence and the implication that anybody who is not 101% in agreement is somehow small -minded, Little British and pig ignorant

Times change, laws change and young people adapt, its not the end of the world not to work in EU.

I totally agree that leaving the EU has closed down opportunities but it is what it is. I'm not sure we help our young people by being too sympathetic though, there are other countries. My daughter took a gap year, worked 3 different minimum wage PT jobs and saved enough to spend 2 months in Tanzania and 1 month in China working as a volunteer. She taught English in schools, worked on an HIV awareness project, started a netball group and coached etc. She lived in very basic conditions and was physically and emotionally challenged but my goodness she grew several years in maturity! The world hasn't shut down because we've left the EU but it has closed up because of the pandemic, let's encourage our grandchildren to become resilient and ambitious rather than "hard done by". fwiw in the 60's I also worked in the UK to earn enough money to travel in Europe for 4 weeks and I had a great time, just needed a passport.

I have plenty regrets in my life, but spending time living and working abroad (in Europe as it happens) is NOT one of them. It is something which I still think about often and of which I quite proud.
I feel sad that people today will need to jump through far more hoops to get the experience I had for, frankly, no good reason.

'Entitled' honestly?

Yes, let's go back to ma father's days- aged 14 he was told 'you are starting an apprenticeship as a tailor on Monday'. He begged to stay on at school, and wanted to go on to further Ed. and said he didn't want to become a tailor. The reply was simple 'no-one is asking you'.

Working abroad is no easy option, and has very little security, and even less now. It often led to better things long-term, but easy and 'entitled' it was and isn't. But it is great to have the choice.

Thank goodness my GCs can apply for Irish passports, but so unfair for those whose choice is just being removed.

You shouldn't watch too many British films which give a totally distorted idea of what the job means. Most of them don't work for posh chalets or posh people, but ski companies or language schools, etc, that cater for school trips, etc. Some I know used to be students of mine- some I took abroad on cheap ski trips and totally fell in love with the sport and the mountains. We used to go by coach all the way, used to organise 2nd clothes sales and rent some in the UK- to cut cost down to the absolute minimum

I have never watched a British or indeed any other nationality film on this topic.
Now who is being judgemental? .

Actually I know very well what they do -as nieces, a nephew , daughters and sons of various friends and back in the day two of my cousins did it.
They also managed to fit in a fair bit of skiing and social life, so please don’t preach.

Isn't this evidence of the divide though?

There are a group of people who have taken the best advantage of all the opportunities available to them, to travel in Europe and see a bit of the world, and who have a changed world view because of that.

Then there are a group of people who think that anybody who wants to do that is just an overprivileged layabout and they should just stay here and work in a hotel.

Do you think 'chalet' staff do not have to earn their keep. What do you think they do?

They clean, the toilets too, work in the kitchen, make the beds, organise ski hire and lessons, deal with drunken customers and clean up after them, and so much more. They work, hard.

MawBe

I have to say I find the Winter chalet girl/boy jobs or summer Eurocamp reps a bit “Gap Yah”. (Probably jealous as I had to earn my keep as an au pair in my summer vacs.)
D1 did Camp Counselor in N Carolina for two summers and an exchange to Norway for the third - there are all sorts of things available for the enterprising.

Quite judgemental for sure. I know many who have made it a total life-style, and this for many many years. Several have settled there, marrying locals, and becoming Managers, ski instructors (having started as kitchen washer-uppers, etc), and others have their own company building, carpentry, plumbing, etc.

You shouldn't watch too many British films which give a totally distorted idea of what the job means. Most of them don't work for posh chalets or posh people, but ski companies or language schools, etc, that cater for school trips, etc. Some I know used to be students of mine- some I took abroad on cheap ski trips and totally fell in love with the sport and the mountains. We used to go by coach all the way, used to organise 2nd clothes sales and rent some in the UK- to cut cost down to the absolute minimum.

But the subject is about taking the choice away.

My predictive text thing has gone beserk today.
In my post..”behind” was meant to be “who”

My kids don't think they are entitled what a really nasty thing to post.

One of my sons took two languages at school and did exchange trips, I don't think it would be as useful as a year abroad with Erasmus , though obviously not all youngsters go to university anyway.

I have to say I find the Winter chalet girl/boy jobs or summer Eurocamp reps a bit “Gap Yah”. (Probably jealous as I had to earn my keep as an au pair in my summer vacs.)
D1 did Camp Counselor in N Carolina for two summers and an exchange to Norway for the third - there are all sorts of things available for the enterprising.

“ it may lead to less young people believing they are entitled to have and do whatever they want”
Oh dear. Not all young people behind go and work/travel abroad are on a gap year or are “entitled”. Don’t GN posters want people to see the world ???travel broadens the mind… so true

I would say the majority of GNs didn't have the opportunity to work abroad - were their "hopes dashed"?

I'm not sure that will actually be true, lots of GNers have spent or are still spending significant times "abroad".

I went to work at a French University for two years, there were no work permits needed and my qualifications were accepted there with no queries whatsoever. I was in my 30s, so hardly a "gap year" and hardly "young".

A few years later (in my forties ) I went to live in a non-EU country and had to pass medicals, send in my qualifications for "approval" and had to apply for a visa. Having been through both systems, the first was definitely more conducive to me fulfilling my opportunities.

Exactly, thanks.

I'd be very concerned if any of my GC wanted to go and work in Russia, or in China- and the HK option is not really there anymore.

Some youngsters I know used to work the winter in the Alps, and then the Summer in Spain or Greece, etc. Unless they can get some EU nationality, it will be VERY difficult to continue to do so. It is also putting so many travel companies, both winter, ski, and summer, sport, oriented- as they can't recruit staff- from cleaners, to reps, instructors, etc.

I would say the majority of GNs didn't have the opportunity to work abroad - were their "hopes dashed"? We somehow managed to fulfill our dreams and make good lives for ourselves.

It became the norm for young people to have a "gap year" to go "find themselves" now they can still work abroad they just have to show they have the skills required by that country - it may lead to less young people believing they are entitled to have and do whatever they want.

One of my favourites Lucca was someone on here describing how difficult is was to order jewellery from an online site they'd used before, to be told there are plenty of jewellers in the UK!