So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

oops, cross post!

In Europe, ... third country national is often used for any person who is not a citizen of the European Union within the meaning of Art. 20(1) of TFEU and who is not a person enjoying the European Union right to free movement, as defined in Art. 2(5) of the Regulation (EU) 2016/399 (Schengen Borders Code).

Something else we gave up because we thought it wasn't worth anything.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_country_national

MawBe

^This is not a sudden discrimination- it has been the same for 3rd country nationals for the EU^

Can you explain this concept of third country nationals please?
What are first country and second country nationals?

Really, Maw? Really? You don't know what a 'third country' is?

I think you're being disingenuous..

Here is a page of search results which will help you

www.google.com/search?q=why+are+non+eu+member+states+called+third+countries&oq=why+are+non+eu+member+states+called+third+countries&aqs=chrome..69i57.31905j0j8&client=tablet-android-asus-rev&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

This is not a sudden discrimination- it has been the same for 3rd country nationals for the EU

Can you explain this concept of third country nationals please?
What are first country and second country nationals?

There is no discrimination it’s exactly the same in the UK, employers do have to check the passport of employees and will get prosecuted if employing those without a permit. That has been the law for many years.

There is a lot on nonsense on this thread

Callistemon

Kali2

Why? They are not refusing to employ one nationality- they are treating all 3rd countries the same.

Sorry, you said Ski Companies are now refusing to employ British youngsters which is discrimination against one particular nationality.

Was that a misunderstanding on my part?

If all third countries, why the sudden discrimination against them all, by insisting on EU passport holders only this year?
They may find themselves short of staff if so, or are they anticipating another poor season because of Covid?

The adverts do not say 'NO Brits' but 'only EU passport holders need apply'.

This is not a sudden discrimination- it has been the same for 3rd country nationals for the EU.

The EU is a 'club' where all members access some special conditions. Just like any club. Have you ever tried to play gold at the club you used to be a member of and pay subs- after you left and stop paying your subs?

Look at driving licences- if you are an EU citizen going to live in another EU country, you can just use your licence everywhere- after 1 year, you have to exchange it for the licence of the country where you are resident (DVLA keeps the old one, and will re-issue if ever you move back to UK). 3rd country nationals have to retake their licence in full- apart from a few countries which have made a specific arrangement with EU. And the same happened to people from Europe who moved to UK, before 1973. It's a simple concept really.

MaggsMcG

What the F happened to patriotism. We voted it didn't go the way a lot of us would like. Too bad. Let's just get on with it. Maybe just maybe enough people will now stay in this country and work to get it better. Or go to a non European country. There's plenty of them still left.

Patriotism in the form you are thinking about means nothing to me, for all the good reasons stated above.

As fr young people staying here- what has happened has really triggered a passion in so many of our best, to go and seek work elsewhere. Not the 'ski and surf' kids, Au Pairs and bar/hotel we have mentionned to far- but the very best - doctors, nurses, scientists and innovators, entrepreneurs, and so many more. Because they know the funding comes from the EU, and that all this is now done in an international setting- and in this part of the world, based in Europe, with links to the rest of the world- and also for much better conditions academically, but also salaries and pensions for the future.

One of my nieces has a health issue which is not being dealt with properly in the UK, and which can't be insured privately. She has gone to work in the EU, and is getting the very best of care at relatively little cost.

Hi, so to add to this my British 35 year old daughter works for a sports firm who have big connections in Europe. Opportunities previously open for her to work in the EU are now so much more difficult and the firm does not want all the hassle of paperwork so recruits in the country instead.
To help I have applied for Irish citizenship for her as I hold am Irish passport.
These aren't high flying jobs where the pool of talent is limited and so hurdles are easier to overcome. This is simple supply and demand economics which is damaging and isolating.

Callistemon

Patriotism definition:

Patriotism or national pride is the feeling of love, devotion, and sense of attachment to a homeland or the country and alliance with other citizens who share the same sentiment to create a feeling of oneness among the people.

Are you not a proud citizen of Scotland?

Good try.

MaggsMcG, None of us are discussing the referendum, that's done with. What we are discussing is what effect leaving the EU has had on the country since it happened on 1 January this year.

We are looking for the benefits we have gained - and also any problems that have arisen. Unfortunately, so far, the main impacts have been deleterious, the lorry driver shortage, the problems with the Irish border.

It would be marvellous if someone like you could tell us what the main advantages are that have been as positive and impactful as the two above have been negative.

We all want the best for our country, and surely that is what patriotism is, and we would like to see that Brexit has been good for us and all our fellow citizens. Currently, even media sources who supported Brexit, seem to be full of the problems affecting us and not the benefits.

If you can list benefits that have affected us as immediately as empty shelves in the supermarkets, we would love to know them.

MaggsMcG

What the F happened to patriotism. We voted it didn't go the way a lot of us would like. Too bad. Let's just get on with it. Maybe just maybe enough people will now stay in this country and work to get it better. Or go to a non European country. There's plenty of them still left.

If you need to swear while in the comfort of your own home you were probably always going to give us nothing more than a very shallow analysis of the situation. I wonder what you are trying to achieve by this post.

Patriotism is shown differently by different people. Many mistake nationalism for patriotism.

Please don't keep trotting out the 'unpatriotic' nonsense. It is deeply offensive to those of us who voted to remain because we do care about the future of our countries.

Kali2

Why? They are not refusing to employ one nationality- they are treating all 3rd countries the same.

Sorry, you said Ski Companies are now refusing to employ British youngsters which is discrimination against one particular nationality.

Was that a misunderstanding on my part?

If all third countries, why the sudden discrimination against them all, by insisting on EU passport holders only this year?
They may find themselves short of staff if so, or are they anticipating another poor season because of Covid?

M0nica

*Elvis58*, no one is talking about the referendum, as you say that discussion is boring, and, yes, we have left the EU, but only for 7 months ago, so we are only now just seeing what the effects of leaving are having on our country - and so far the results are worrying. The main and obvious one is the shortage of lorry drivers to move food, and goods, around the country. More serious, is the total b***ers muddle over the boundary between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This is endangering the Good Friday agreement and the already, very imperfect peace between the warring parties there.

As yet there have been no major results where, so to speak, with one leap we were free and we can say, that the NHS now has £350 million a week extra, or expenditure on education has increased massively.

I do appreciate that COVID has muddied the water, but we are all suffering th clear problems caused by leaving. It would be nice to know there were advantages that had affected us as immediately as the lorry driver shortage has, but for the life of me, I haven't seen any.

Agree 100% with this.

Welshwife

It has NOTHING to do with patriotism - but it does no good to close your eyes to the faults which are now appearing! If you don’t see them how can you work to repair them? Ignoring faults is against patriotism - continuing something which is killing your country and its worldwide standing is not patriotism - seeing how things are and working to make things better for the population is patriotism.

I couldn't agree more. It's so sad to see the values I hold dear being eroded.

Patriotism definition:

Patriotism or national pride is the feeling of love, devotion, and sense of attachment to a homeland or the country and alliance with other citizens who share the same sentiment to create a feeling of oneness among the people.

Are you not a proud citizen of Scotland?

Synonyms for patriotism on Google: · loyalism · chauvinism · jingoism · flag-waving · isolationism · xenophobia.

I don't value any of those things.

It has NOTHING to do with patriotism - but it does no good to close your eyes to the faults which are now appearing! If you don’t see them how can you work to repair them? Ignoring faults is against patriotism - continuing something which is killing your country and its worldwide standing is not patriotism - seeing how things are and working to make things better for the population is patriotism.

What the F happened to patriotism. We voted it didn't go the way a lot of us would like. Too bad. Let's just get on with it. Maybe just maybe enough people will now stay in this country and work to get it better. Or go to a non European country. There's plenty of them still left.

Elvis58, no one is talking about the referendum, as you say that discussion is boring, and, yes, we have left the EU, but only for 7 months ago, so we are only now just seeing what the effects of leaving are having on our country - and so far the results are worrying. The main and obvious one is the shortage of lorry drivers to move food, and goods, around the country. More serious, is the total b***ers muddle over the boundary between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This is endangering the Good Friday agreement and the already, very imperfect peace between the warring parties there.

As yet there have been no major results where, so to speak, with one leap we were free and we can say, that the NHS now has £350 million a week extra, or expenditure on education has increased massively.

I do appreciate that COVID has muddied the water, but we are all suffering th clear problems caused by leaving. It would be nice to know there were advantages that had affected us as immediately as the lorry driver shortage has, but for the life of me, I haven't seen any.

Elvis58

Oh please,we have left get over it! For Gods sake change the record!
Its so boring now!

Well that record is the same, over and over again!

Why? They are not refusing to employ one nationality- they are treating all 3rd countries the same.

Kali2

KateF

Kali2

Already a huge problem for all those wanting to work in European resorts, be it in the leisure, sport or tourism of any form - and ski/snowboard instructors, sailing, surfing, etc. as 'equivalence' only applies to EU and Switzerland. Now those who aspire to be pilots, face the same problem as post-Brexit exclusion frustrates UK pilots as carriers seek EASA-licensed crews.

The Ski Operators are now advertising for staff in all their resorts, requiring an EU passport for all staff, from cleaners, to reps and instructors.

How sad that opportunities for our grand-children are being dashed like this - at the time where they lives are being so restricted in other ways due to Covid, and they also face the worries of climate change.

When I did my stints at Ski resorts and Campsites, we all were required to have visas, no different to today on a Brit Passport, they are also required to have a Covid Vaccination certificate.

Who has led Europe in Covid Vaccinations, Ummmmm Ummmmm of course the UK, silly me I forgot!!.

I am curious here, when did you do this? Before 73? And in which country?

Ski Companies are now refusing to employ British youngsters, as it is such a complicated process- which can take weeks and even months- and if the work permit is refused, they could find themselves without the necessary staff to run their operation in time for the start of season.

Same for other jobs. All the job adverts say currently that only applicants with EU passports need apply.

I really worry that they may be breaking EU law by refusing to employ one particular nationality.

It will be interesting to see which non-EU countries challenge this.

kali2 many EU countries have now overtaken U.K. in vaccinations- crowing about that no longer washes.

Diane7

Regarding climate change, one of the problems is building on flood plains, they had done that in Germany. Also how many properties have front gardens any more? The majority of areas that have problems with flooding had new housing built in the area.

Flood plains are so named because they are -just that- areas of flat land designed to take the overspill from rivers after heavy rain.
They were devised as such centuries before climate change , and the big difference is that in the past nobody with two brain cells to rub together would have wasted money building on them.
However, with property in short supply, planning authorities are now clearly more motivated by increasing the housing stock (and developers in profit?) than common sense
If a flood plain has not flooded in the last 25 or 30 years, it has been assumed it is not likely to.
And therein lies the flaw to the argument.