So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

*But when I did it, in the nineties, I hopped on a cross channel ferry, drove to my destination, started work on the Monday. No Visa, no immigration requirements, just moving house. It was easy. It was becoming normal, it was like moving from one UK town to another*

That was the problem - it was too easy for people from all over the EU to come here, take our jobs and drive down wages.
All too easy. And they were doing it in their millions.

Alegrias1

Just posting this again...

Not sure of the relevance in this context?

Just posting this again...

growstuff

Yammy

JaneJudge

My kids don't think they are entitled what a really nasty thing to post.

One of my sons took two languages at school and did exchange trips, I don't think it would be as useful as a year abroad with Erasmus , though obviously not all youngsters go to university anyway.

Do you mean Erasmus the theologian or Erasmus the very cunning and canny South African Rugby coach? The outcome would be very different depending on which.

Is that supposed to be a joke?

No, it certainly was not. The outcomes would be very different and you haven't said which one you mean.

KateF. “ we all were required to have visas, ”. Really ? Visas for Europe ? Or do you mean work permits ?

I worked in Italy early 70’s. For four years. No visa. Just passport plus a couple of local permits done at the
Police station

Yes growstuff you could be right. New Zealand are having problems obtaining all the vaccines they need. They only ordered Pfizer and hoped to complete their tiny population’s vaccinations by September, but now it appears it will be December before it is complete.
I don’t think Britain ordered too few vaccines, but they may have ordered too few of particular vaccines, the Pfizer or Moderna ones. They put in enormous orders, far more than our need, for lots of different vaccines, but are now relying mainly on Pfizer or Moderna. They said spare vaccines would be donated or sold at cost (Astra Zeneca) to third world countries, and I believe some vaccines, the AZ ones, have already been given to other countries, but of course much more needs to be done in that department.

One of the main aims of Brexit was to reduce the number of migrant workers and to reduce the flow of manufacturing outside the UK to lower labour cost countries, thereby keeping more jobs at home Was it really? I have read this thread from start to finish, and applaud those of you who keep on trying to get the message across, but wilfully or otherwise, there are too many who just don't/won't understand, too many people saying that young people should just get on with it/take a job in a hotel in Blackpool and count themselves lucky/it was possible 45 years ago/why don't they pick fruit? etc., etc., At the risk of a sharp retort from predictable parties, can I just point out that no young adult entering the job market at present voted for Brexit.

Theoddbird

There are opportunities in the UK. People don't have to go abroad to find work. Keep our talent in our own country I say...

Oh dear. So is everyone to just stay in their own country ? Or is it just Brits ?
Depressing.

Yammy

JaneJudge

My kids don't think they are entitled what a really nasty thing to post.

One of my sons took two languages at school and did exchange trips, I don't think it would be as useful as a year abroad with Erasmus , though obviously not all youngsters go to university anyway.

Do you mean Erasmus the theologian or Erasmus the very cunning and canny South African Rugby coach? The outcome would be very different depending on which.

Is that supposed to be a joke?

maddyone

Alegrias1

Who has led Europe in Covid Vaccinations, Ummmmm Ummmmm of course the UK, silly me I forgot!!.

Who has the biggest share of their country fully vaccinated? Malta, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark. Triumphalism isn't nice, especially when its misplaced.

Slightly off topic, but since we had a head start on the vaccination programme, I’m wondering why were now falling behind. One reason could be that we have far more people to vaccinate than places such as Malta, which has a tiny population. Another reason could be the amount of vaccine hesitancy in this country. There seems to be rather a lot of it, but I’ve no idea just how much.

Another reason could be that the UK didn't initially order enough of the vaccines needed. There are (admittedly anecdotal) stories of younger people finding it difficult to book vaccinations in some parts of the country.

JaneJudge

My kids don't think they are entitled what a really nasty thing to post.

One of my sons took two languages at school and did exchange trips, I don't think it would be as useful as a year abroad with Erasmus , though obviously not all youngsters go to university anyway.

Do you mean Erasmus the theologian or Erasmus the very cunning and canny South African Rugby coach? The outcome would be very different depending on which.

sundowngirl

I worked in France,Germany and Switzerland in the late 60s before we even joined the EU or the common market as it was then, without a problem. If our youngsters want to work abroad they will, I wouldn’t call it that their dreams are being dashed!

I worked in the EU in the early 1970s and I still remember all the paperwork involved. Why make something more difficult for no gain?

There is a huge problem in the UK with many companies in the leisure industry not being able to find staff because young people from the EU can no longer work in the UK. However, I cannot help thinking that it hasn't stopped teenagers from other non EU countries (e.g. USA) coming to work in the UK in the past so I think there is always a way. I have a friend who lives in France and her son went there post Brexit and is now working in France.

I haven’t read all the replies but there’s a lot more to all this if you give the whole view. Due to far less EU staff coming to work in UK, wages in UK are rising and there are lots of jobs in hospitality/ tourism in UK. The West Country for example has seen a massive influx of tourists this summer. For pilots, it is a political issue yes. The UK CAA stated that UK based airlines could employ crew with EASA licences. The reverse is not true. However, that is to protect the UK pilots as most have UK EASA licences which need converting to UK CAA. 2 years post-Brexit that can change and the UK can say all UK based airlines must employ UK qualified crew. Airlines like Ryanair use all sorts of unsavoury practices with employing pilots. The UK CAA now has the opportunity to stamp some of this out, as other countries have. Pilots will need to have right to work in UK also. For decades pilots have transferred to other jurisdictions licences, whether working for Cathay in Hong Kong, China Airlines or Swiss.
BALPA is campaigning for an even playing field for transferring licences. Those who hold UK issued EASA licences can no longer get a valid EU issued EASA licence, even if they have 10,000 hours of airline flying. The only reason to stop it is politics, not safety.

I'm confused - We have left the "European Union" but we haven't left the continent of Europe, so the need for European qualifications mentioned in a previous post should still be ok, shouldn't it?

Alegrias1

^Who has led Europe in Covid Vaccinations, Ummmmm Ummmmm of course the UK, silly me I forgot!!.^

Who has the biggest share of their country fully vaccinated? Malta, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark. Triumphalism isn't nice, especially when its misplaced.

I was just trying to remember where I'd seen this.
Thank you!

Not a reference to the original post, however I understood English is the language used in any air related services, air traffic control, etc. so all pilots would need to understand and speak it.

Alegrias1

^Who has led Europe in Covid Vaccinations, Ummmmm Ummmmm of course the UK, silly me I forgot!!.^

Who has the biggest share of their country fully vaccinated? Malta, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark. Triumphalism isn't nice, especially when its misplaced.

Slightly off topic, but since we had a head start on the vaccination programme, I’m wondering why were now falling behind. One reason could be that we have far more people to vaccinate than places such as Malta, which has a tiny population. Another reason could be the amount of vaccine hesitancy in this country. There seems to be rather a lot of it, but I’ve no idea just how much.

All these comments along the lines of "I did it in the Sixties, I don't see the problem...."

Of course its still possible to go and work in the EU, if you really want to do it. But when I did it, in the nineties, I hopped on a cross channel ferry, drove to my destination, started work on the Monday. No Visa, no immigration requirements, just moving house. It was easy. It was becoming normal, it was like moving from one UK town to another. But all those benefits are gone now, to satisfy a set of people who think we'll be better off as a tiny island in the Atlantic, going it alone, because it was fine when they were young. What could possibly go wrong?

I have always said right from the beginning when they started to talk about leaving the EU makes me sad for our young ones I only have one grandchild a grandaughter and would have loved to see her travel and perhaps get work. But it’s not to be .?

While it's disappointing for the youngsters, Life is tough and they're having their first experience before they've even done anything. The want it right now is in the past, we 're all going to have to fight hard to get where we want. It's a whole new world and they must not give up at the first fence. I wish all the youngsters good luck, persevere and it can still happen. ~Don't put all the plans in one basket.

I worked in France,Germany and Switzerland in the late 60s before we even joined the EU or the common market as it was then, without a problem. If our youngsters want to work abroad they will, I wouldn’t call it that their dreams are being dashed!

Young people coming into the workforce now did not get to vote. I am with you Kali and sylla. I know several young people who are in the science and research communities - all concerned about funding and opportunities. Another young man I know built up his own high tech electronics business employing 12 people. He is now looking for premises in an EU country. Nothing whatsoever to do with COVID. The reality of Brexit is here now.

I'm with Kali2 all the way - the issue is not about language, but about learning about different cultures and that's what young people who choose to go abroad for temporary work or travelling gain - knowledge of other ways of living, and the very important lesson that what they've been brought up with is the only/right way of being. To bring in the argument that English is spoken around the world is a red herring, and serves to confuse the issue. Brexit has not made everything OK, and will not - it's completely ruined our fishing industry and heaven knows how the poor people of Northern Ireland feel - still feeling very, very frustrated by the complete impingements to our lives by Brexit and I do despair of the view that we, on this little island, with so much xenophobia are providing the right future for our younger generation - we're not - in a previous existence as an academic I sent around 60 third year undergraduate students abroad each year to work in different situations as part of their degree programme and I can say I have the evidence that every one of them, around 800 in total came back with different and better perspectives on life.

Who has led Europe in Covid Vaccinations, Ummmmm Ummmmm of course the UK, silly me I forgot!!.

Who has the biggest share of their country fully vaccinated? Malta, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark. Triumphalism isn't nice, especially when its misplaced.