Animals don’t belong in the Olympics

peaseblossom I subscribe to the mantra that we should try to do “the least harm possible” in our lives given that it’s impossible to be alive and have no impact on our environment. It’s also useful to remember we should not let perfection be the enemy of the good, so if someone isn’t the most perfect person on the planet they can still campaign for changes. As far as animal sanctuaries go, I haven’t any strong views, I’m guessing to keep their work going they need donations which I’m happy to give , and maybe encouraging visitors to come to see their work ( rather than just for mere entertainment, although who knows the motivations of all the visitors) will hopefully raise more funds. I have never visited an animal sanctuary , though I’ve visited the occasional nature reserve and can see they need an income to keep up their work. I am not a spokesperson for vegans btw, just my thoughts. I know some extremists argue against any sort of domestication of animals but I do not hold that view. Hope that answers your questions .

Message deleted as it quotes a deleted post.

So vegansrock knows all about the abilities of the over-sixties, and all about horses, and all about the Olympics. Anything else?

I’m more concerned at the pressures put on very young competitors - I think there should be a lower age limit of, say, 16.

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vegansrock

pippaz you are doing some serious straw clutching if you say criticism of a horse being punched is “rude”.

I was trying to downplay and be less harsh about some of your posts attributing certain behaviours to those who keep and train horses.

I felt it was ignorant and insulting.

You only have to look at animals performing in circus to know that they can be made to do totally unnatural things.
That's why circuses no longer feature them.

greenlady102 I said that riders don't use whips and spurs like they used to.

Moreover, if you look up Modern Pentathlon, it says that whips and spurs may be used, not that they must be.

I agree with Kartush.

Well it wasn't intended that way. As I'm sure you know.

Alegrias1: Being called childish, on a site that is primarily for grandparents, seems ironically complimentary. I thank you for that!

I love horses, I have ridden them occasionally and I know from personal experience that they are large powerful creatures with big teeth and sharp hooves who very rarely do anything they dont want to do.
I have watched the video of german trainer and I find it odd that so much is being made of an action that the horse probably didnt feel and nothing is being said of the rider flapping around, pulling on the reins and generally ignoring what the horse is telling her. No you should not hit an animal but if that horse was in a herd and backed up to another horse it would probably get a bite on the rump. I have had a herd of horses and they inflict way more damage on each other than that.

Hi vegansrock. As you’re there would you feel able to comment on the suggestion that visiting animal sanctuaries is an alternative to visiting zoos.

I understand the difference in the treatment of animals but really can’t see any in terms of using animals for human entertainment.

Likewise my earlier query on animal rights and people,e having pets.

I’m not having a dig, but I am interested in the ethics.

pippaz you are doing some serious straw clutching if you say criticism of a horse being punched is “rude”.

vegansrock

Given that the Olympics are supposed to be about human athleticism, I fail to see why events such as dressage and showjumping are allowed. Dressage is basically the horses’ achievement. The horses are basically performing tricks. I know the rider needs skill and there’s lots of training involved, but if there must be stress involved for the animal . Horses don’t like being transported either and they are flown thousands of miles to these events, I’m sure the top horses are well looked after, but I don’t believe they aren’t stressed at any time. As for that coach punching a horses in the modern pentathlon, if they do that in the ring how must the horses be treated behind the scenes? Don’t tell me they have a long history, so does dog fighting and bull fighting, a long history doesn’t make them good.

I agree wholeheartedly.

And not a vegan nor vegetarian!

creativz

I’m more concerned about the way horses are sent off for inhumane slaughter once they’re ‘done’, often transported in hideous conditions to countries where they eat horse meat… so why aren’t more horse loving humans bothered about that too ?!

Well I for one am, and Panorama showed how awful it was - the racing industry must now do more to satisfy their welfare needs after they are no more use off the track, and there are several organisations which do that, one local to me ROR

I'm with you, vegansrock, now they have new sports, like skateboarding, bmx, trampolining etc, which are accessible to ordinary people, I think we should leave the outdated, elitist elements out of the Olympics. Seeing the dressage upset me a lot, as did the poor horse in the Pentathlon, he was obviously not well, soaked in sweat.

MaizieD

Kim19

I've been thinking a lot about this recently as I watched the dressage. My thoughts were mainly on the stress these procedures must cause the horses but I am consoled by the fact that apparently they simply refuse if they don't want to do a jump. That calms me considerably.

Why would you think that dressage stresses a horse?

I have seen horses turned out in their field do better 'dressage' than most horse/rider partnerships can achieve. Dressage is based on their natural paces and movements. There is very little that they are asked to do that they can't achieve when running free.

Agreed "MaizieD:"

A lot of you here obviously haven't had much experience with horses - there's that old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" - absolutely true!! If the horse doesn't want to do it, it won't!!

The horses at the Olympics and that will be in the Paralympics are elite athletes themselves - they have built up strong relationships with their riders over the years and are willing to please said rider. Charlotte Du Jardin and Pumpkin did amazingly as they haven't been together for long and he is a young horse for being at that level.

However, yes I agree, the Modern Pentathletes have 20 minutes to get to know their horses and try and make a partnership - the German rider just couldn't do it! Punching the horse was just awful and the coach that did it was banned from Tokyo. Even that horse would have been chosen and trained to do as asked and to specifically to do that job, so I suspect it was wholly rider error.

The 18 horses used in modern pentathlon are all local and auditioned for a place in the Olympic stable at a Games test event, so Saint Boy would have been suitable to use and a proven showjumper although I wouldn't want to loan my horse out for anyone to ride it!

Each of the horses sees action twice and if it refuses four barriers in the opening group, the rider in the second can request a reserve.

There were signs of trouble ahead as Schleu’s horse Saint Boy gave Russian Gulnaz Gubaydullina a difficult time refusing three barriers.

It is like a 'blind date' really, but it does show the skills of the athletes being able to do 5 different disciplines. Our Gold winning medalist however had been brought up with horses and was a superior rider basically .... with a more amenable horse! on the day.

As I said "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink ...."

Honestly where have I ever brought veganism into, yet people think it’s ok to make rude unpleasant playground remarks about vegans which wasn’t part of this discussion. As such it equates with hate speech. Of course it’s ridiculous and ignorant to suggest I wish animals didn’t exist. Protecting wildlife and the environment is really important to me thanks.

…and it’s disgusting how several of you think it’s fine and dandy to ridicule somebody for their compassionate views on animal welfare and basic animal rights, your pitiful display here is very sad indeed. ?

PhilJaz

People like vegansrock will not be happy until all animals cease to exist

Then we'll really be up s*** creek without a paddle, won't we?

Why do people post such ridiculous things?

I’m more concerned about the way horses are sent off for inhumane slaughter once they’re ‘done’, often transported in hideous conditions to countries where they eat horse meat… so why aren’t more horse loving humans bothered about that too ?!

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Shortlegs

Watch out, watch out, watch out there's a vegan about!

How childish.

Septimia

Ill-treating any animal is unforgivable. But if a horse doesn't want to do something it won't and you can't make it. It won't jump fences if it's really unwilling - and some seem to actually enjoy it - it will simply refuse. That's why appropriate horses have to be carefully chosen. Riders in such events don't use whips and spurs like they did in the past and many use bitless bridles. It is the relationship between horse and rider that makes the difference.

The German rider allowed her problems to get the better of her and her mount picked up on her distress. The coach was well out of order.

There absolutely are ways of making a horse do what it doesn't want to, most of them nasty, some very nasty. Which events do riders not use whips and spurs in? they are required in modern pentathlon.

Given the amount of money spent on these horses, they are going to get the best treatment possible. Their travelling arrangements are first class and in some cases, better than human travel conditions. Having spent a lot of time in the show jumping world when I was younger, I know how much a horse enjoys performing for it's rider/carer. There is a great relationship between horse and rider. As always, there will be those who take out their frustrations on animals. I would rather concern myself with the awful treatment of animals in the food chain, here at home. It is they who need our sympathy.

I don't ride, never have and have nothing to do with horses. But I'm allowed an opinion, surely? and I find animals being used for entertainment distasteful. Now, I've been to Ascot a couple of times in recent years (my company has hosted Clients and I've been asked to attend), but I'd not go again. I don't think I had an opinion either way as to horses being used at the Olympics until I saw the footage of the horse being pulled by it's mouth and urged to jump and, yes, being punched (it was a punch to the horses ample rear while he was being urged on to do the riders bidding). That was a horror show.

I'm not a vegan although my diet is now mostly vegetarian. I strongly support the fox hunting ban. I think it's natural progression as we educate ourselves that using animals isn't the correct thing. In the same way it's not acceptable to take a healthy animal and put it in a zoo, or Circus's with performing animals.

And I find the term "cult vegan" disrespectful. And rude.