To want to weep fir the girls in afghanistaan

What a waste of so many lives. What a bloody mess. All hope has gone. RIP hope.

They have entered Kabul with no resistance.

It is unbelievable to admit but during Trump's Presidency there were times George W Bush spoke out or i even found myself hankering back to better days when he was in charge although it was never felt at the time.
He spoke out in July about the withdrawal of troops and i agree with him. He also said that it breaks his heart to think how the women and girls will suffer now.

I think that Afghanistan became too open ended for America. They went in with the intention of wiping out Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, but that done, they were suddenly involved in all manner of mission creep and trying to help a government that up to then had failed to manage the country. As one member of a Congressional committee remarked, “That is called nation building. We don’t do nation building - that’s for others.”

lemongrove

Whitewavemark2

Just as an aside. Afghanistan is no longer considered a terrorist threat to USA and allies. Terrorists are now in other countries.

....but how long before that scene changes?

God knows

Whitewavemark2

Just as an aside. Afghanistan is no longer considered a terrorist threat to USA and allies. Terrorists are now in other countries.

....but how long before that scene changes?

The BBC has an article about the Afghan army and why it seems incapable of resisting this onslaught. Corruption is part of the problem.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58187410

Don’t forget that the running down of allied troops has been happening over a number of years not suddenly as people seem to think.

The big problem was that Trump (the idiot) did not involve the Afghan government in the withdrawal agreement. Do idea why, but then I doubt that he has either.

Just as an aside. Afghanistan is no longer considered a terrorist threat to USA and allies. Terrorists are now in other countries.

lemongrove

Yes, I do know Whitewave
Biden had the opportunity to do something different after Trump’s departure but has been happy to go along with it.
Trump cared zero for anything happening elsewhere ( outside the US) and Biden seems much the same.

Biden could have revoked the agreement, but it simply is not in the USA interest both internally and externally. Afghanistan has had since 2020 to prepare for this. USA spent trillions on arming and training the afghan army.
Biden’s first and last responsibility is to America.
I can absolutely understand why he made the decision, that is not to say that I don’t feel very uncomfortable about it, nor weep for the women and children.

Of course countries act in their own self interest, but the allied armies in Afghanistan were able to help the populace and infrastructure there too ( so not all self interest.)
A taliban ruled country there could spell disaster not only for the people there, but for the West.We shall see.

Yes, I do know Whitewave
Biden had the opportunity to do something different after Trump’s departure but has been happy to go along with it.
Trump cared zero for anything happening elsewhere ( outside the US) and Biden seems much the same.

lemon you do know that it was Trump that negotiated the withdrawal with the Taliban?

I have read (today) the rationale behind Biden’s thinking and I can understand why the decision was made.

I understand, although do not agree why they went into Afghanistan, but it was certainly not and has never been a humanitarian mission. The USA and allies went into Afghanistan purely out of our own self interest, nothing more.

The Taliban were knocked back because they were in league with Al Qaida, who were eventually got rid of. The cause and effect of this action was that the hardline Muslim leaders were got rid of and women were able to come out of the shadow.

However the Taliban remained in the mountains and when Obama began the withdrawal of thousands of USA troops once Al Qaida were gone the Taliban were able to become stronger.

The USA and allies were never there for any other reason than self interest. It is apparently now judged that there is no longer a terrorist threat from Afghanistan

Totally agree Lemongrove. Of course we couldn't stay for ever, but surely this exit could have been done in stages over the course of time, giving the Afghanis time to adjust and get used to managing on their own? To exit so completely in a short space of time after all these years of dependence does seem foolhardy.

Allied forces couldn't stay in Afghanistan forever, but it could have been done at a much slower pace.
Quite apart from the effects on girls and young women, if the taliban take over completely it will become a safe country for all Muslim terrorists who we then cannot get at.

I am truly sorry for you and your family's loss grannyactavist, and I can understand a little of what you are feeling, but I agree with what has been said that during the past 20 years so much improved particularly the position of women, and girls education. This was wholly due to people like your SIL,who made this possible. No one can take that away and your SIL certainly didn't die for nothing.

Greyduster

Biden wants all his troops home before 9/11 and then it will be fortress America all the way. They are no longer interested in securing the hearts and minds of people in faraway places with strange sounding names. We can’t stay as we are too few to go it alone and need their infrastructure. So once we have all our people out it’s game over. There will be no doubt be special forces there keeping an eye on the rise of insurgent groups but that’s about it. Back to the dark ages. What a mess.

Yes, exactly this.
I never had high hopes of Biden and this reinforces it.

Eloquent post WWMk2. We are all saddened and distressed by what we are seeing unfold, it is obviously all the more so for you and your family grannyactivist

westendgirl of course I consider the humanitarian cost - who could not? But this is the first conflict in its history that the US borrowed heavily to fund and it is going to be paying interest on those loans, and funding the care and rehabilitation of the injured of a war with no end in sight for years to come. I’m sure the people of America have considered the humanitarian cost too, but they have developed mission fatigue, the same as they had with Vietnam. How long were they supposed to stay there?
Grannyactivist I feel your family’s sorrow with almost the same intensity as when I first read about it all those years ago. Your daughter was - is - such a brave lady. That his presence, and that of others like him, made a real difference when he was there, in the way that he attested, might be some small comfort to you.

grannyactivist there will be young women now whose lives have been changed for ever as far as their education is concerned. Nothing or no one can ever take that away from them.

That is what your son-in-law did in his time on this Earth.

How many of us can say the same - that we have had a profound affect on these young women’s lives by the very fact that we were prepared to give our lives for their freedom?

He certainly did not die for nothing.

Please be assured that your SIL did much which will and does remain with those he helped.I am sure they will hold his deeds ,which improved their lives close in their hearts.

I do not think it was to no purpose as the girls that your SIL observed attending school will have benefitted from that, however short-lived. The will carry that with them throughout their lives, and it was made possible by people like your SIL. In this sort of intractable situation we have to look for positives, however small, wherever they might lurk.

Before he was killed our son-in-law reported on the changes he’d seen since his previously deployment to Afghanistan and the foremost of these was that girls were attending local schools and women were freely going to market and becoming involved in community life. He was so happy about that and we shared his delight. Helmand, where he was stationed (and where he was killed), is one of the areas where women and girls have suffered most under Taliban rule.

Now it seems as if his death had no purpose and I can’t explain how saddened I am, nor adequately put my feelings into words. I keep breaking down in tears (my daughter’s having the same reaction) and feeling almost newly bereaved. I think about the girls and women who will lose their freedoms and once again be at the mercy of hard-line misogynists and simply weep.

Sorry about the huge space.I dont know what I did.

Do you not consider the humanitarian cost, Greyduster.?
The occupation and take over by the Taliban will have great implications for the whole world.
By the way Any Questions was very interesting with contributions from listeners who were desperately trying to get people out, from former soldiers and from Afghans here.
I do agree with some saying Parliament should be recalled and quickly. Do listen.





























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