Fingers crossed for Pen Farthing and Nowzad

I’d just like to add that years ago I used to watch a programme called ‘Monkey Life’ about a sanctuary in Dorset run by an American guy called Jim. He and his wife, along with trusted helper Jeremy used to travel the world rescuing chimps,Orang-utans and assorted primates. Often when a chimp or Orangutan was in the hold Jeremy would be filmed keeping them company. I’m not disputing what anyone has said but, obviously humans can travel in the hold.

NotSpaghetti I’m totally with you. I adore animals but children must come first every time.

Just heard there’s a very credible risk of a terrorist attack by Isis at the airport and they’re advising people to keep away. Apparently Isis hate the Taliban. What a mess. I can’t believe these evil groups care so little about their fellow humans. Just evil to the core.

AGAA4

It seems that given a choice of you and your family being shot by the Taliban or the lesser risk of getting out in the hold of a plane, I would think many would choose the latter.
Seeing distressed children in those crowds at the airport makes me angry and upset.
Children and parents first before cats and dogs and I do like animals but if it were between a child and a dog I would put the child's safety first.

I agree AGAA4 but we are obviously in a minority on this thread.

Isn't the Airbus A330 the one that was going to put sleeping pods in the hold?

Just saying.

I understood the animals and carers had been stuck near the airport for eight hours. My husband said he had read that all the animals were going to be euthanized. Don't know if that is true or not.

The commercial aeroplane chartered by Nowzad is an Airbus A330.

You can't put people in the hold full stop. I'll add a bit more as a bystander -

If anyone were to die in the hold there would be civil lawsuits against - let's see. Nowzad for supplying the plane? The charter company? Airbus? British Government for allowing people to travel as animals?

I am taking a guess here, but it would be inhuman to allow children to be treated as baggage, it's not just the visuals it's the logistics of toilets on a long flight. You're going to have dogs and cats relieving themselves and you'll have people sitting in it.

NotSpaghetti, you may not see it as impossible, but can you imagine telling a toddler to sit still while they are roped down in the hold of a plane? The pregnant woman that landed in Germany and gave birth on the plane - hold on to a bit of rope, love, you'll be fine ...

NotSpaghetti

I hadn't realised Where would they sit? Would you put them down there in cages? was actually a question Zoe as I'm afraid to say it sounded a bit silly to me.

If it was serious, apologies.
So here's my answer - if it was me I'd sit my family on the floor if need be. Presumably we would need some secured rope or similar to be reasonably stable during take off/landing.
I don't see it as impossible.

I can assure you it is impossible. But it's fine for you to disagree if you want.

Not remotely silly of me to ask if you expected them to go in cages. But it would be the only way to go.

You think secured rope would suffice for human beings to sit in a hold of a commercial plane?

That's not silly. That's just insanity

I hadn't realised Where would they sit? Would you put them down there in cages? was actually a question Zoe as I'm afraid to say it sounded a bit silly to me.

If it was serious, apologies.
So here's my answer - if it was me I'd sit my family on the floor if need be. Presumably we would need some secured rope or similar to be reasonably stable during take off/landing.
I don't see it as impossible.

NotSpaghetti

You are quite wrong Maudi.
I am pleased if available space is going to save someone!
Here is a US rescue plane doing just that! 600 in the hold.
Thank goodness!

That plane would normally be stacked to the top with cargo. Do you think that scaffolding should have been erected so that the people could sit in layers? Looking at the photo I reckon you could probably get about 4 layers of people in there.

Passenger planes have a cargo hold below the seating deck(s) and probably don't have much spare room after taking into account the passengers' luggage on a normal flight.

I was a flight attendant in a previous life. I know what holds of commercial planes look like. Having a soldier son I'm also vaguely aware of what military planes are like.

I'm not angry, JustSpaghetti, just frustrated because people seem to think if we can put dogs in the hold then we can put humans in the hold.

We really can't. Holds of commercial planes are nothing like military planes. We can't compare.

And you haven't answered my question of where the people are going to sit! Dogs will be in cages. We can't put humans in cages!

The plane has been funded by the charity to rescue Pen, his team 69 people and the animals, any spare seats will go to who ever needs them. Fingers crossed all get out safely.

It seems that given a choice of you and your family being shot by the Taliban or the lesser risk of getting out in the hold of a plane, I would think many would choose the latter.
Seeing distressed children in those crowds at the airport makes me angry and upset.
Children and parents first before cats and dogs and I do like animals but if it were between a child and a dog I would put the child's safety first.

planes can’t just land and take off willy nilly. There are many countries organising flights in and out.
That's right - it's not the availability of planes, it is finding enough slots that is the problem.

When several governments are flying out their staff and other desperate people then a private charter flight will just have to take its turn for a slot - if the passengers can get to the airport at all.

Nope, that's right. I wait with baited breath

That’s bated. Carry on.

I don't know what I'm wrong about Zoe
I thought we were discussing something?
Please explain.
I feel that I've been entirely open here and came to this thread only with interest.
I'm not invested in it.
I don't know why you seem so cross Zoe?

So many people said you can't put people on the hold but you can put animals there... and I was just wondering why. That's all.
Now I know this isn't actually the case - that the same air is pumped round the hold and cabin generally through the cockpit first.
It may not be anyone's first choice but hey, neither is being stuck in Afghanistan if you aren't safe.

Who said they weren't pressurised? They clearly are. Or animals would never be allowed down there.

Have you anything to add?

You're wrong. You know it. I know it. I shall leave you to it.

Zoe since this thread started I've learned that all cargo holds on planes that are registered as suitable to transport livestock are pressurized.

Get the people out first.
Obviously fill additional space with animals.

You are quite wrong Maudi.
I am pleased if available space is going to save someone!
Here is a US rescue plane doing just that! 600 in the hold.
Thank goodness!

NotSpaghetti

Here is a photo Zoe
Tacloban residents displaced by Typhoon Haiyan fill the cargo hold of a C-17 Globemaster aircraft during Operation Damayan before departing from Tacloban, Philippines, Nov. 22, 2013.

Oh dear, NotSpaghetti

That is a military plane

The McDonnell Douglas/Boeing C-17 Globemaster III is a large military transport aircraft

This plane for Pen and the animals is not a military plane. It's a commercial flight.

You can't compare apples with oranges

Just because you aren’t hearing them doesn’t mean there aren’t any.

Nope, that's right. I wait with baited breath.

Imagine the uproar if fleeing Afghans were put in the cargo hold, the left would have a field day, Boris would be slated because he was treating them like animals.

Here is a photo Zoe
Tacloban residents displaced by Typhoon Haiyan fill the cargo hold of a C-17 Globemaster aircraft during Operation Damayan before departing from Tacloban, Philippines, Nov. 22, 2013.

Alegrias

Not hearing any valid excuses so far...

Just because you aren’t hearing them doesn’t mean there aren’t any.

I hope he gets the animals out but from what I understand the Taliban aren’t allowing him into the airport. It’s all too easy to sit here criticising but it’s chaos outside that airport and planes can’t just land and take off willy nilly. There are many countries organising flights in and out.

You can't put people in the hold of a plane, NotSpaghetti. It's just not possible.

Where would they sit? Would you put them down there in cages?