Paying for Social Care

I’d never thought of the people you talk about as being the titled people of the land M0nica, and I do agree with you about titles; they are worth nothing even if there is money behind them. As the Bard says, “the man o’ independent mind, he looks and laughs at a’ that.”

But the median household income in the UK is less than £30k. So at least half of the people in this country manage on less than a third of the income you say qualifies people as being just like us. By the stats in the link which I think you gave us yesterday, 97% of people earn less than what you consider to be ordinary folks.

Whether you consider it so or not, they are exalted circles, just because of the income they have.

Good post doodledog

Yes Doodledog. Exactly what you’ve written.

Alegrias The whole point is that I do not live in exalted circles, the people I know are teachers and people running small businesses, or were in different professions. Just ordinary people like you and me who by an accident of birth inherited a title, but who, as the money the family once had has long been dissipated have neither power nor influence and who in each case do not even use their title. I say this to emphasise my original point that it is money that talks in this country, in any country. Breeding and titles only come into it if they have plenty of money attached to them.

As the song from Caberet says '

Money makes the world go around
...the world go around
...the world go around.
Money makes the world go around
It makes the world go 'round.
A mark, a yen, a buck or a pound
...a buck or a pound
Is all that makes the world go around
That clinking, clanking sound...
Can make the world go 'round
Money money money money
Money money money money
Money money money.

The rest titles, honours, land, the lot, are only fripperies and worth nothing if the money isn't there to back them.

Arguing over who is feckless and who is exploitative is exactly what the government want us to do. That way we aren't discussing their incompetence and total failure to sort out the care system adequately.

The bottom line should be that the system takes no account of any of that, but pays out to those who need it. Your house insurance doesn't ask about your life choices or spending patterns if you get burgled - it just needs to know the value of the stolen goods and that your premiums are paid up.

Alegrias1 there are bad apples at either end of the financial spectrum, that doesn’t mean that all the poorest in society are feckless or that all the richest are fleecing us for billions.

I don't think I ever made all-encompassing allegations, did I GG13?

There are very rich people with consciences.

givingpledge.org/

However I did suggest that when people talk about the tax they pay on their share dividends, that they should be cognizant of the fact that share dividends are not something that most people have to worry about.

There is nothing in her posts that says she feels that way - just that it is not fair to make some people pay and others not. And IMO, that is a reasonable point of view.

Hmmm! But that's strange because I read a post on GN claiming that life isn't fair and there can be no such thing as fairness.

But the two things are not connected - you're doing it again! I assume that Jillybird made the post about fairness? Again, Jillybird, sorry to speak about you as though you aren't here, and again, you can, of course, come along and correct me if I am wrong, but it is perfectly possible to say that life isn't fair, yet wish it were. Just because life isn't fair doesn't make it ok to make it more unfair to more people.

growstuff, your friend was buying her own house at one point. She must, at least at that point, have been in favour of home ownership, and understood its attendant advantages, not least of which is that by paying a mortgage you are accruing an asset and securing the ability to live rent-free in older age, which is exactly why most people do it. I can understand her being disappointed that that didn't work out for her (and FWIW I don't see her as feckless at all), but if her disappointment were to lead her to wish to remove all access to inheritance to others, and to feel that pensioners should live on very low incomes in a race to the bottom against UC claimants, I would sincerely wish that she learned to deal with her disappointment in case it became bitterness that coloured her view of life and made her unhappy.

Did you ever ask her what she had planned to do with the house she was buying if she didn't plan to leave it to her own children?

Alegrias1 there are bad apples at either end of the financial spectrum, that doesn’t mean that all the poorest in society are feckless or that all the richest are fleecing us for billions.

Making all encompassing allegations of sections of society are neither true or helpful.

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1 I have two feckless folk amongst extended family. I am totally aware of how they live, and the dodges they have become aware of.

By the law of averages they cannot be the only feckless households in the U.K.?

I just find it completely inappropriate to blame the "feckless" for things. Like I said above, its annoying but its really not the problem here. I really don't care if some people manage to fiddle the system and get a few 10s of thousands out of the system every year. I'm more concerned about the people who pretend to be good upstanding chaps and are fleecing us for billions.

Alegrias1 I have two feckless folk amongst extended family. I am totally aware of how they live, and the dodges they have become aware of.

By the law of averages they cannot be the only feckless households in the U.K.?

Incidentally I agree with the state pension age being equalised for men and women, and I have never complained about not receiving my state pension until I was 63. However I was in the lucky position of being able to claim my teacher’s pension at 60. Today teachers are not so lucky and have to work for longer.

I agree that it would have been much fairer to have raised income tax rather than put it on NI. I don’t know enough about this, but will it raise more on NI because of employers contributions? I pay tax as I have a small teacher’s pension as well as my state pension. Like many on here, I’m a WASPI woman, having had my state pension withheld for three years and so I’ve already paid quite a lot through that to the state but I wouldn’t have objected to paying a little more tax. As things are I won’t be paying anymore as I don’t pay NI contributions any longer.
I think the current system of care for the elderly is very unfair and it seems the new system won’t improve things much.

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1

I've held off, really, but I've got to say...

Anyone who can write that they pay tax on their share dividends, or are happy to pay extra NICs for their employees, has probably no idea what its like to be properly poor and live on benefits today. Its a different world. And yes, maybe I'm judging you, but so be it. Sorry, but really, its a "let them eat cake" outlook and it gets on my wick.

Sorry your post has just made me laugh out loud!!!!!!!

You have absolutely no idea of peoples early years, how they have reached the position they are now in?

You have no idea of their experiences or hardships along life’s pathway.

I find your post judgemental and ignorant.

No, I don't have any idea GG13.

But I would like to think that any experience of hardships early in life would make people aware that talking about share dividends and their employees makes them sound just a wee bit superior to the people who didn't have the advantages in life/good luck/Protestant work ethic. (Delete as appropriate)

So here's my "lived in paper bag in the middle of the road" story.

First place I lived, two room flat with an outside shared toilet, condemned as a slum by the council. Grandparents never owned their homes and one died with £55 in the bank. Personally benefitted from a state funded education system and a childhood spent in a council house. I've had employees and I've got shares. I've got a pension plan that will see me through and I live in a four bedroom house. And I've never felt the need to come on GN and complain about the feckless, how unfair life is to me and why its wrong that I should sell my house to pay for my care when I get old.

Neither have I felt the need to call anyone ignorant, but I guess that's the way I'm made.

GillT57

^decent folk who have bought their homes and accumulated savings^. Blimey.

I am sure that there are lots of indecent folk who have achieved the same.

The same as there are lots of decent/indecent folk who have never purchased their home or accumulated any savings.

Alegrias1

I've held off, really, but I've got to say...

Anyone who can write that they pay tax on their share dividends, or are happy to pay extra NICs for their employees, has probably no idea what its like to be properly poor and live on benefits today. Its a different world. And yes, maybe I'm judging you, but so be it. Sorry, but really, its a "let them eat cake" outlook and it gets on my wick.

Sorry your post has just made me laugh out loud!!!!!!!

You have absolutely no idea of peoples early years, how they have reached the position they are now in?

You have no idea of their experiences or hardships along life’s pathway.

I find your post judgemental and ignorant.

decent folk who have bought their homes and accumulated savings. Blimey.

I've held off, really, but I've got to say...

Anyone who can write that they pay tax on their share dividends, or are happy to pay extra NICs for their employees, has probably no idea what its like to be properly poor and live on benefits today. Its a different world. And yes, maybe I'm judging you, but so be it. Sorry, but really, its a "let them eat cake" outlook and it gets on my wick.

growstuff the lady in your anecdote is not feckless she has just been unlucky regarding a divorce settlement.

One anecdote does not prove that there are no feckless folk, nor do your many posts maligning rich folk prove that all rich folk are money grabbing tax dodgers.

Your opinions of others have obviously been formed by your life experiences, my life experiences are different as are my opinions.

1.25% tax for everyone would have been fairer in my opinion, but it’s not what we have. I am happy to pay extra NIC’s for myself and my employees along with extra tax on any dividends I receive.

No growstuff you do judge others.

Good post Germanshepherdsmum My own mother has few assets and is neither rich nor privileged but she has to pay nearly £1300 per week for her care. What she has got won’t last long at that price though and then the state will pick up the cost and pay only two thirds of what she pays, and it’ll be exactly the same care. Mum was a Teaching Assistant and Youth Club Leader when she worked. She worked almost all her life in these worthy but poorly paid jobs.

maddyone

growstuff you accuse others of being judgmental. Perhaps you should take a look at your own posts. You judge anyone on Gransnet who has a different opinion to yours.

Actually I don't maddyone. They judge themselves. All I do is articulate my observations.

growstuff you accuse others of being judgmental. Perhaps you should take a look at your own posts. You judge anyone on Gransnet who has a different opinion to yours.

There is nothing in her posts that says she feels that way - just that it is not fair to make some people pay and others not. And IMO, that is a reasonable point of view.

Hmmm! But that's strange because I read a post on GN claiming that life isn't fair and there can be no such thing as fairness.

It’s clear to me that Jillybird is simply highlighting the unfairness of the current system. The only way to treat everyone equally is to have care fully funded by the taxpayer. I’m not happy I will be contributing to the changes to funding which are now to be made only via an increase in the tax I pay on share dividends, nor am I happy that the additional funding, when in place, will not cover the food and accommodation elements of care home fees. I have no desire whatsoever to moulder away receiving care whilst the assets I have accumulated through a lifetime’s work go down the drain. If the day ever comes when I can no longer wipe my own backside a bottle of pills and a bottle of something tasty will do the job nicely - as my family know. I won’t stay on the thread to defend that statement, but no, it’s not what I suggest anyone else, rich or poor, considers. It’s purely a personal choice.

Ah! This is the Government's plan to "fix social care" - get the private sector and insurance companies to cover the Government funding chaos.

Source: www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/10/social-care-cap-nursing-home-costs-insurance?utm_term=bfb7c18b16559d22623a533498d3125a&utm_campaign=BusinessToday&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bustoday_email