Paying for Social Care

My Mum was in a lovely care home. It was run as a charity ie not for profit and any excess was ploughed back into the home. It was so well run and staffed. Food was great. Several public rooms to suit preferences. Lots of activities for those that wanted them. Fine if they didn't. Best of all a bistro run by volunteers so that residents and visitors could have drinks, snacks or a meal together. It was really lovely.
It's closed down now.

Sorry, pressed too soon, my Mum would have utterly hated her last few years, eventually we got agreement from the GP attached to the nursing home, no more antibiotics, palliative care only.

My Mum died two years ago, she was in care for the ten years before her death with dementia. The first 6/7 years were in a care home, between 35-40k a year, the latter years in a nursing home, 50-55k a year. This was fully funded from her assets, my father died 16 years ago, so yes, they saved and their money was used. Mum was well looked after, that was the important outcome, whether others in the same places were self funded or not, I don’t know.

Treatments that keep people alive but don't consider their needs and quality of life are cruel. My mother had said she wants to go up there a few times. I don't know if she means it or not because she's always been an attention seeker. I wouldn't want her life though because she lives in a luxury home but her life is extremely limited. She can only walk few yards and needs help to go to the toilet and to do most things. It's not a particularly nice life now.

I know it's not about ensuites and smart TVs. My original point is that expectations have changed and much more is expected as the norm. More and more sophistication is likely to creep in over time (I can't even imagine what!) leading to higher costs. What treatments are now available in NHS now were unimaginable in its early days.
Care costs are always going to be high.

Once they lose capacity, it's easier, as we can catheterise them'
That is shocking!

It's really not about smart TVs and ensuites is it? It's vital to have enough staff, with enough time - to actually care properly for the residents.

There are never enough staff - especially at night. There is no legal minimum number. Residents aren't necessarily asleep. Inspections are in the daytime.

My mother felt frightened, neglected and abandoned in her luxury home. If they left her call button within reach (often they didn't) she'd use it - and nobody came.

She'd phone me in the early hours, desperate for help. (She needed help to get to the loo for a wee - not much to ask) I'd phone the home, wait a while, then phone her back to make sure that they'd responded.

That worked for a while - until she started phoning the police and ambulance. We had to take her phone away. A staff nurse said it was a 'nuisance' to get her up in the night, then (alarmingly) added 'Once they lose capacity, it's easier, as we can catheterise them'

nanna8

Probably they need to do what they do here. Only retirees under a certain income get any pension at all. They do not fork out for many of us. Upsetting for those of us who have worked our butt off all our lives but we just have to wear it. It would save billions if the uk did the same.

Why do we need 'to save billions' and what would we be 'saving' them for?

No, we're in this position because successive UK governments couldn't organise a p***up in a brewery.

nanna Again, this will just encourage people not to work, achieve, save? People need to be encouraged to work and make provision for their care if they are able. We already have two many 'hand outs' and hence why we are in this position.

Probably they need to do what they do here. Only retirees under a certain income get any pension at all. They do not fork out for many of us. Upsetting for those of us who have worked our butt off all our lives but we just have to wear it. It would save billions if the uk did the same.

MissAdventure

I think more thought is given to people with learning disabilities in that respect.
The elderly, though? Cheap and cheerful, I agree.

The home where I volunteer is Learning Disabilities. The LA literally put people out to tender and funnily enough it is the low bids that win. Bit different if very complex needs as no one is going to be daft enough to offer a low price for complex needs but the LA has no money so won't pay a penny more than they have to.

I think more thought is given to people with learning disabilities in that respect.
The elderly, though? Cheap and cheerful, I agree.

JaneJudge

These days occupational therapy reports take into account people's sensory needs too and what impact being with someone else might have on their mental wellbeing. Quite a lot of people with dementia and Alzheimer's are sensitive to noise and light and hopefully that is all taken into account when placing someone somewhere. So with respect to expectations, it's not material

If social services are paying the big consideration is getting somewhere cheap. Well it is in my LA.

Good point Jane.

These days occupational therapy reports take into account people's sensory needs too and what impact being with someone else might have on their mental wellbeing. Quite a lot of people with dementia and Alzheimer's are sensitive to noise and light and hopefully that is all taken into account when placing someone somewhere. So with respect to expectations, it's not material

I wouldn’t want to share a room either, not long term anyway. My mother has a single room, WiFi (although she’s not very good with it, but can use it a bit) and a television (not a smart TVs.) There is an en-suite bathroom. It’s a lovely home but very expensive and her money won’t last very long.

I wouldn't want to be in a shared room either. Who wants to die next to someone they don't know or vice versa. I think the shared bathroom is less of an issue.

The home my Grandmother was in was like your Mums witzend. Any tvs or personal items in the room were the clients own

I think Aveline's point was more that as general standards of living rise (or more than we are all used to inventions and developments that have come onstream fairly recently) then expectations have risen too.

Many people who grew up in homes with no central heating or hot water would (rightly) be appalled at the thought of their parents going into homes that don't have those things, and gradually that has morphed into an expectation of a TV with freeview at least, and maybe wifi if the resident can use the internet.

Our generations (by which I mean everyone on here) would probably miss the opportunity to chat to one another online - maybe to the point that it would affect our quality of life to the same extent as the lack of a TV would have done only 20 years ago.

There is not really an argument for those things to be paid for by the state, but OTOH their lack would be more keenly felt by someone in a home where everyone else could access them.

At my mother’s care home - by no means the most expensive but it was an Abbeyfield, purpose built for dementia - all the rooms, regardless of whether you were self- or council funded, were single and en-suite.

You provided your own TV if you wanted one, but TBH although she’d watched endlessly at home my mother didn’t seem bothered - one was usually on in the communal sitting room anyway.
Plus when dementia is involved, the remote is bound to go missing over and over….

I was just wanting to illustrate how expectations are evolving. No TV in Granny's shared room with communal bathroom!
I was interested to read the advertising for a new private home opening nearby. It boasted a nail bar and champagne lounge!! My friend thought that this was more to influence the younger generation that the 80+ year olds who'd actually be moving in.

Aveline

Just looking at the responses to this thread highlights how impossible it is to find an equitable or even a reasonable way to fund long term care.
No wonder it's never been done up till now.
Standards and expectations of care have increased just as treatment options have proliferated in NHS. eg my grandmother was in a shared room with a communal bathroom in the care home she was in years ago. It was was no big deal at the time and pretty common. Nowadays single en suite rooms with smart TVs are expected. What will be next? This is an honest enquiry. I don't know what to expect when my time for care comes. If it comes...

In all the homes I know, relative in one and I volunteer in one and used to be on the management team of a group of homes, you have to buy your own TV and pay for internet if you want it for your smart tv or computer.

En suites are becoming more common but not all rooms have them and they tend to be just a loo and basin, no shower or bath for safety reasons.

Yes, that makes sense. I would absolutely hate to share a room - I only share with my husband when I have to ? - but that’s not to say everyone would feel the same.

I think it’s tempting to project what we think people want into this scenario too, some people don’t like single rooms, they far prefer to share because they get lonely on their own, particularly at night. It’s surprising I know, but if you look at evaluations by users of en-suite single bedrooms it’s quite an eye opener. Most care homes do have a few double rooms, which are flexible use, because married couples want them, and if they don’t use them otherwise it’s an income loss - they don’t seem to have difficulties filling them.

That's a good question, Aveline.

I suppose that en suite facilities (apart from the dignity they offer the patients) will be easier for the staff? Fewer accidents when facilities aren't shared, and probably easier for residents to get to? As people live longer, they may be getting more infirm.

I know my grandad needed a hoist to get out of bed, and help to go to the loo, so a communal one would have been a non-starter, really.

Smart TVs get cheaper all the time, too, so things that would have seemed a luxury (in our homes as well as in care homes) have become standard. The ability to choose your own TV programmes is well worth the price of having your own TV, I think, and they can be passed on to future residents when the time comes.