The EU and Poland are on a collision course.

Poland seems to be pursuing an isolationist line they are at odds with Russia, Belarus as well as the EU, their whole economy is dependant on trade with EU countries particularly Germany.
Although there has been a lot of development aid the well paid employment within Poland has not been enough, so large numbers of young people have migrated. The aging population that remains is more right leaning, the EU must do more to aid employment within Poland

Just trying to get an honest answer from you Algerias...but never mind.

I know you're trying to goad me Lemongrove.

Not a good look.

Mamie
It could be the reverse. They had 44 yrs under the communist cosh. Then 24 yrs of being their own people before joining the eu, obviously not realising that they have to abide by more rules and regulations decided by a foreign power. They took the kings shilling not knowing exactly the price they had to pay.

?
Yes, thought you would duck out of that question.

You have your opinions Algerias and I and others have theirs.

Yep. And some of them are asinine.

Also, please don't put words in my mouth. You want to talk about a Scottish referendum, start a thread.

Mamie

Could it also be the case that given the suffering of the Polish people as victims of power struggles across Europe in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, that they might actually feel safer in the community of nations of the EU?

I think you are absolutely right.

You have your opinions Algerias and I and others have theirs.
I realise that you don’t really like that, as you seem puzzled that others may disagree, opinion wise.
You haven’t answered my question about the Scottish referendum btw after you saying that public votes are’t always wise.

In all seriousness, such asinine opinions are what have landed us with Brexit.

I'm actually a bit speechless that people still think this way.

Since Germany was the country that plunged everyone into two terrible wars with it’s expansionist ambitions, I don’t think
It’s a co-incidence that Germany is the main player within the EU.If that has helped to keep peace with it’s near neighbours then all well and good.

Could it also be the case that given the suffering of the Polish people as victims of power struggles across Europe in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, that they might actually feel safer in the community of nations of the EU?

lemongrove

Alegrias1

How can you call the EU, the biggest peacemaking project in recent years

How many wars between what are now EU countries in the first 50 years of the last century, Yammy?

How many since?

....only because Germany are already running the show?
They would never have been happy to be minor players in the EU.
But yes! Keep them in the EU and happy by all means!

Holy cow, that's offensive.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Zoejory

I have no idea if Poland want to leave the EU. It really isn't our business.

We have no idea how the EU will look in 20 years time and as far as I'm concerned I"m not giving it much thought.

We're in this position now. Out of the EU. Not how I wanted it to play out, but c'est la vie.

I have 4 AC. 9 AC in law. They have partners. They all have good jobs. They are not discussing Brexit. Their children certainly aren't. I work in the CS with predominately young adults ... nobody cares about Brexit. Nobody talks about it. It's here on GN I find it is still very much on a few people's minds.

It's a moment in our timeline which will be forgotten about. Fifty years from now most of us will be pushing up daisies and Brexit will be but a moment in our history.

??????

I’m unclear as to how the EU has over-reached itself?

Alegrias1

^How can you call the EU, the biggest peacemaking project in recent years^

How many wars between what are now EU countries in the first 50 years of the last century, Yammy?

How many since?

....only because Germany are already running the show?
They would never have been happy to be minor players in the EU.
But yes! Keep them in the EU and happy by all means!

Mamie

So this is one of several polls I have seen demonstrating that the vast majority of Polish people want to stay in the EU.
www.thefirstnews.com/article/majority-of-poles-want-poland-to-stay-in-eu---poll-24695
Are people really rejoicing in the fact that Poland could be forced out of the EU by the actions of an authoritarian government, against the will of the Polish people?
If that is really the case, then I think that they have perhaps allowed their feelings about the EU to cloud their judgement?

I’m not. I’ve read up more on the topic recently. Poland are huge net beneficiaries of the EU largesse so their people aren’t going to want to pull that fiscal plug any time soon.

Poland can use their vote to veto proposals and become the Awkward Squad though. Some would call that ‘cherry picking’. Whilst others (their PM and ministers) are worried about sovereignty. They may find ‘the piper plays the tune’ in the end though.

I have no idea if Poland want to leave the EU. It really isn't our business.

We have no idea how the EU will look in 20 years time and as far as I'm concerned I"m not giving it much thought.

We're in this position now. Out of the EU. Not how I wanted it to play out, but c'est la vie.

I have 4 AC. 9 AC in law. They have partners. They all have good jobs. They are not discussing Brexit. Their children certainly aren't. I work in the CS with predominately young adults ... nobody cares about Brexit. Nobody talks about it. It's here on GN I find it is still very much on a few people's minds.

It's a moment in our timeline which will be forgotten about. Fifty years from now most of us will be pushing up daisies and Brexit will be but a moment in our history.

How can you call the EU, the biggest peacemaking project in recent years

How many wars between what are now EU countries in the first 50 years of the last century, Yammy?

How many since?

So 50 million didn't vote to leave ..neither did they vote to stay.

How can you call the EU, the biggest peacemaking project in recent years, when it is based in Belgium a country that has been bailed out from aggressive neighbours on either side numerous times and is run by unelected beurocrats who are all frightened of each other gaining the upper hand.
The Polish people have always wanted their freedom from Russia and Germany, perhaps they wonder what will happen when Angela Merkel goes. We can not speak for them in the way they would vote. Though with Putin to their east they will be thinking hard.

So this is one of several polls I have seen demonstrating that the vast majority of Polish people want to stay in the EU.
www.thefirstnews.com/article/majority-of-poles-want-poland-to-stay-in-eu---poll-24695
Are people really rejoicing in the fact that Poland could be forced out of the EU by the actions of an authoritarian government, against the will of the Polish people?
If that is really the case, then I think that they have perhaps allowed their feelings about the EU to cloud their judgement?

My knowledge about the ins and outs of Polish politics is scant, but it seems to be a fascinating dynamic. I’ve been reading more on the subject.

My instinct is that Polexit isn’t the end game of the Polish government. The economy benefits too much, there isn’t yet a ready-baked alternative trading scheme to jump to, Poland is uncomfortably situated between the EU and Russia, and frankly the people don’t seem to want it. I’ve learnt that much!

However, and Warsaw will have watched closely, and learned from, the Brexit negotiations, national sovereignty within, and over, the EU may well be achievable.

The EU has over-reached itself, and seems to be doubling down. Warsaw knows that Poland cannot be ejected, and it also knows that it has the geography to split the EU.

This will be interesting going forward. Especially as Germany has managed to get away with so much. I wonder if the bigger boys bully the smaller ones. Remember Greece?

Urmstongran

^I remember a few years ago some on here wetting themselves with glee^ silly, inflammatory language there vegansrock. Are you hoping to get a rise out of some posters?

Rememeber to call out Kali2 also for her use of the phrase "wet pantaloons" earlier in this thread.

* urmstongran* I was borrowing the imagery which an earlier poster used about “ wet pantaloons” ( sic) , I didn’t notice any offence taken then.

lemongrove

The 50 million either weren’t allowed to vote or couldn’t be arsed to vote.No good quoting what they would have done.
All that mattered was the vote by those eligible to do so.
This can’t be said enough times!

You're not following this line of argument, I think...