Penelope Jackson murder trial

MissAdventure

There is no doubt she is guilty.
I think people are surprised at the length of the sentence, when comparing it to other murders committed by men--

Exactly. Because strangling a woman in the middle of sex, and using the 'She liked it rough...' defence is SO much better than a ground down woman snapping and killing while out of her mind.

I have a friend whose father beats the mother. None of the children will have anything to do with the father. Any one of the three daughters would take the mother in and put a roof over her head, day or night. Still, she stays. Coercive control on top of physical violence means she is mentally unable to leave DESPITE having external support.

MissAdventure

There is no doubt she is guilty.
I think people are surprised at the length of the sentence, when comparing it to other murders committed by men--

None of us know for sure what goes on in someone else's marriage. The face they seemed to present to the world was a happy one but we don't know if either, or both, was different behind closed doors.

Her attitude after the stabbing did not appear to be that of someone in their right mind. I presume psychiatric reports were presented to the court.
We weren't there and didn't hear all the evidence or how she presented herself in court.

However, I agree that the sentence does seem unduly harsh compared to others who have killed.

There is no doubt she is guilty.
I think people are surprised at the length of the sentence, when comparing it to other murders committed by men--

VANECAM

It strikes me that many of the posters on here wouldn’t have been accepted onto the trial jury since their biased views even before hearing the evidence would render them unworthy of providing justice.

but unfortunately their biased views would not be known when they are selected for jury service.
maybe it is different in america ?, but in uk there is no routine questioning of prospective jurors, as to their opinions/politics.
this jury was made up of 8 women and 4 men, randomly selected from the electoral roll.

welbeck

i am surprised at the wholesale dismissal of the verdict and sentence in this case, imputing all kinds of malfeasance to the judge and jury.
perhaps, they followed the law, on all the facts before them.
people are making so many assumptions and irrelevant comparisons.
we seem to have swung as a society from widespread misogyny to the opposite; the woman is always the righteous victim.
i feel sorry for the murdered man.

Totally agree. For some it's as if a woman is always innocent.

We have no idea what was said in court. We don't know anything.

This woman committed a shocking crime. She didn't appear remorseful.

I feel sorry for the murdered man as well.

And I also know very well about being married to an abusive man. I know it's not easy to leave. I'm aware of nightmares that some women go through. Having been through it myself.

But I cannot and will not assume anything about this case.

Me too welbeck. This didn’t have to happen. Not at their age.

i am surprised at the wholesale dismissal of the verdict and sentence in this case, imputing all kinds of malfeasance to the judge and jury.
perhaps, they followed the law, on all the facts before them.
people are making so many assumptions and irrelevant comparisons.
we seem to have swung as a society from widespread misogyny to the opposite; the woman is always the righteous victim.
i feel sorry for the murdered man.

She was obviously deranged when police turned up. Who knows what kind of people picked at random were on the jury or if the judge was a misogynistic bigot! The justice system needs looking into- so many sentences are illogical or do I mean inconsistent ? None of us knows all the background to this case but for many it must be a case of “There but for the grace of god go I”

kittylester

Urmstongran

She could have just left him. As in walked out. She had a daughter. She could have stayed for a while. Divorced. Got a payout (half) and set up on her own. Yes I feel very sorry for what went on in her 3rd marriage. But it wasn’t all behind closed doors. Her daughter knew some of it. She wasn’t trapped at home with babies and nowhere to run. Sorry but I think she did have options. She didn’t choose any.

Women who are abused by their husband or partner are often too demoralised to just walk away. They have been told so often that they are worthless that they come to believe it.

And then, sometimes, they snap.

I have a niece in just this situation.

I’m very sorry indeed to hear that kitty. It must have been very distressing for your family. Different circs.

However.
I still feel this case is from a generation above. No kids. Independent pensions. Choices.

From the little I've read, it sounds as though he was full of contempt for her and had probably spent years putting her down passively aggressively and controlling her. Passive control is often hidden from others who think the man is just so ordinary and wouldn't hurt a fly, except his wife that is! The women in such marriages become so demoralised that leaving is NOT an option, they don't have the courage or the resilience to do it.

I should think her mental state was and is precarious and I think the sentence is harsh. Presumably she will appeal. I don't think that taking a knife to bed is calculating, I think it's someone acting in terror and if you're in that much terror, you are in full flight mode and not able to think clearly.

I have also been on jury service (3 times!) and you don't know all sorts of things until after the trial and some of those things might have changed your mind.

She’s got 18 years! I hope she appeals and wins a reduction.

I remember the one and only time my mum snapped.
She put a plate of food over my fathers head, it broke the plate.
The night didn’t end well ?
Later in bed me and my sister giggled at the fried onions on his face. ?

I can confirm that jurors do have biased views.
They're randomly picked

It strikes me that many of the posters on here wouldn’t have been accepted onto the trial jury since their biased views even before hearing the evidence would render them unworthy of providing justice.

Urmstongran

She could have just left him. As in walked out. She had a daughter. She could have stayed for a while. Divorced. Got a payout (half) and set up on her own. Yes I feel very sorry for what went on in her 3rd marriage. But it wasn’t all behind closed doors. Her daughter knew some of it. She wasn’t trapped at home with babies and nowhere to run. Sorry but I think she did have options. She didn’t choose any.

Women who are abused by their husband or partner are often too demoralised to just walk away. They have been told so often that they are worthless that they come to believe it.

And then, sometimes, they snap.

I have a niece in just this situation.

Obsessed meant obvious

It seems obsessed to me that her behaviour on police camera outside her house on the night in question that she came across as shocked and incredulous that that scenario played out to suggest she was worn down and suffering a breakdown of some sort. It's not easy to tell people what exactly you suffering in your own home. Its embarrassing to admit to a doctor. There, but for the grace of God .go I. If I hadn't walked out many years ago, it could be me or any other woman in her place right now. I was not going to let my ex H dictate my life. I was well rid, of the f...er, then, by divorcing him. And why is it, a woman commiting a crime is worse than any man's crime. Poor woman got life, with a minimum of 18 years. Jeez

this is from the dm

She claimed she didn't remember the 18-minute 999 call on the night of February 13. She told the operator he was 'in the kitchen bleeding to death with any luck' and added 'I thought I'd got him in the heart but he hasn't got one'. . She claimed she had taken an eight-inch filleting knife with her to bed in case her husband was violent. .........

Many women do not realise they are being abused to start with. It can come as a very angry shock when they do. Verbal abuse is just as nasty as physical. It was for me as I had a not had a particularly very nice childhood. I think it could twist your mind in some cases. I feel sorry for her. 18 years is very harsh. Does any one know the proportion of men/women in the jury?

i think she agreed that she drove her 3rd husband to suicide by breaking his heart, ie having an affair, during her evidence in chief.
haven't read all the details.

I don’t understand why events such as these are shown on national television. It must be so distressing for everyone concerned.

MerylStreep

I don’t think the evidence of how her 3rd husband died did her any favours.

Was that presented as evidence in the trial?

I didn't follow the trial.

MerylStreep

I don’t think the evidence of how her 3rd husband died did her any favours.

why, what happened?

Would the jury have heard that though.

When I was on jury service a whole raft of previous “happenings” was not allowed.

We didn’t know anything about it till after the verdict.

I don’t think the evidence of how her 3rd husband died did her any favours.